Interior upgrade/refresh for GWR turbos

northernbelle

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Parallel

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Yes, they'll be done during the course of the current direct franchise award, along with interior upgrade of the Turbos. Covid-19 circumstance allowing of course.
Is an interior upgrade confirmed then? Do you know if they will adopt the GWR livery internally and if the seating will be addressed.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Is an interior upgrade confirmed then? Do you know if they will adopt the GWR livery internally and if the seating will be addressed.
On the Modern Railways magazine website, you'll see a picture of a GWR Turbo train and it says about the refurbishment.

Sorry to be lazy but it's a lot of words for me to put what it says on that article.

I'm really pleased at this - I'll also say that the interiors will be better suited to long-distance routes. Could be an interesting refurbishment :)!
 

Domh245

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On the Modern Railways magazine website, you'll see a picture of a GWR Turbo train and it says about the refurbishment.

Sorry to be lazy but it's a lot of words for me to put what it says on that article.

I'm really pleased at this - I'll also say that the interiors will be better suited to long-distance routes. Could be an interesting refurbishment :)!
The online article says nothing about what the refurbishment involves, indeed it only calls it a refresh:


The new direct award franchise for FirstGroup to continue operating the Great Western Railway franchise until at least March 2023 includes significant plans to improve capacity in the West of England. The new deal began on 1 April for three years, with an optional one-year extension at the Department for Transport’s discretion.

Although full details of the award are yet to be announced, it is understood it will include a recast of regional timetables across the Central and West regions, delivering around 7,000 extra seats a day. It is expected this will see a significant uplift in the Bristol area, supporting the core MetroWest scheme, additional capacity in the Exeter ‘travel to work’ area and improvements into Gloucestershire.

Among plans within the deal are the introduction of 19 Class 769 units supplied by Porterbrook in the Thames Valley, allowing 16 three-car Class 165 Turbo DMUs to move to the West of England, where additional capacity will also be provided by the retention of 10 Class 150/2 sets that had been due to leave the operator. The Class 165 and 166 Turbo DMUs will receive an internal refresh while there is also the possibility these sets could be lengthened to increase capacity.

GWR is also expected to develop longer-term plans for rolling stock provision within the West Country, including for the ‘Night Riviera’ sleeper service.
 

MatthewRead

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166205 Did receive more work than just a change of seat covers and coat of paint, as the interior did receive a coat of grey, grey, and brown paint as well as the then new GWR Green Carpet. Maybe more akin to a light refurbishment, but more than just a change of seat covers.

Thankfully GWR did not stick to some of the features it chose for the launch event, as proven by the frankly disgusting seat covers in the former LA16 Launch Set and 166205, which were changed from a flat cloth to a rougher material (not quite moquette) similar to that used by Southern.
Oh no that material is awful they should get rid of it look how dirty it is
166205 Did receive more work than just a change of seat covers and coat of paint, as the interior did receive a coat of grey, grey, and brown paint as well as the then new GWR Green Carpet. Maybe more akin to a light refurbishment, but more than just a change of seat covers.

Thankfully GWR did not stick to some of the features it chose for the launch event, as proven by the frankly disgusting seat covers in the former LA16 Launch Set and 166205, which were changed from a flat cloth to a rougher material (not quite moquette) similar to that used by Southern.
Oh no the astro seating is in terrible condition just look at these videos //www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YnonhwxMAY
 

northernbelle

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The online article says nothing about what the refurbishment involves, indeed it only calls it a refresh:

The proposed 'Hydrive' conversion removes the need for the existing equipment boxes on the floor of the saloon which currently preclude changing the 3+2 seating for 2+2. Refurb details are currently being developed.
 

cactustwirly

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Yes, Thank You to those reminding me that the Ex Wessex Fleet was in a worse state than the Turbos are now, however that was well over 10 years ago and similarly, both fleets require well overdue refurbishments. I use the Turbo fleet weekly to commute to work, and they are in a sorry state. There is no denying that, despite some posters dressing up of the fleet. The new carpets in the 166 fleet may have improved their now Bristol based cousins, but the reading units remain in a poor state. Often the single robobog is out of use, and more often than not a door is jammed Open too. I often use the first class compartment as this is declassified on my service and as per usual for the Turbo Fleet, the cables are dangling from under the seat bases, some seats have collapsed bases, the carpets have finally started to be renewed after the previous ones were left to get into this state, and it’s quite regular to see the wall trim / carpet sagging or removed. On a few units I’ve even seen holes in the wall caused by vandalism, just left.

In short, they are tired, and they do need a refurbishment. The new carpet in the FC compartment end is a minor improvement, but a minor one at that.
Tbh I think the EMR 222s are in a worse state, and there are no plans to refresh them.
 

northernbelle

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Tbh I think the EMR 222s are in a worse state, and there are no plans to refresh them.
Indeed, although I don't think the state of one fleet excuses another, I do think the feeling about the condition of the Turbos is a bit hysteria. There area some specific examples of where they are unloved, but that's often the case in any fleet. On the whole, they're reasonably presentable if a little bit worn around the edges.
 

jimm

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The proposed 'Hydrive' conversion removes the need for the existing equipment boxes on the floor of the saloon which currently preclude changing the 3+2 seating for 2+2. Refurb details are currently being developed.
The July print edition of Modern Railways says that the tender notice for the work on the GWR Turbos called for the contract to run from September this year until December next year, at a cost of £5.5m (though an online tender site says £6m in its summary) and bidding closed on June 12, so it seems unlikely that there is any link to the Hydrive project. The prototype Chiltern 165 has yet to turn a wheel in trials, never mind Angel Trains getting round to inviting bids for modifying all the other Turbo units used by GWR and Chiltern.

There has never been anything stopping the removal of all the benches of three seats except for the ones which conceal the coolant header tanks for the engines. Interior alterations could have been made years ago if the will had been there - and it's not for the want of asking on the part of GWR. The resistance until now had always come from the DfT, due to its fixation on having lots of seats.

There was also a separate £600,000 tender for exterior painting of dmus, with work taking place from this August until next March, spelling the end for the remaining blue units.

http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W22/727842943 (Turbo interiors)

http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W22/727842944 (dmu painting)
 

py_megapixel

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I don't think there's actually that much wrong with the turbo interiors in principle, they just need a deep clean.

At least, that's what I would say if FGW hadn't plastered pink and purple all over the interiors. Honestly, the colour scheme looks awful, and makes it look incredibly dingy; I'd support a refurbishment just to get rid of it.
 

class26

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I don't think there's actually that much wrong with the turbo interiors in principle, they just need a deep clean.

At least, that's what I would say if FGW hadn't plastered pink and purple all over the interiors. Honestly, the colour scheme looks awful, and makes it look incredibly dingy; I'd support a refurbishment just to get rid of it.
There is something VERY wrong with the interiors when used on long routes such as Cardiff - Portsmouth and that is 2 + 3 seating.
 
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Non Multi

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I'd be buying up the seats from the scrapped Mk3s or Mk4s, much better suited to longer journeys.
...
At least, that's what I would say if FGW hadn't plastered pink and purple all over the interiors. Honestly, the colour scheme looks awful, and makes it look incredibly dingy; I'd support a refurbishment just to get rid of it.
It looked really smart for the first few years, but it just hasn't aged well at all.
 

JonathanH

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I'd be buying up the seats from the scrapped Mk3s or Mk4s, much better suited to longer journeys.
It does seem odd that this kind of upgrade isn't made that often - the GWR Mk3 seats are still in use in the HSTs which have remained in service (and there would appear to be plenty spare. Rather than buy new seat frames, reusing the ones they already have would provide a fairly quick upgrade at a much lower cost than using other seat frames. While the seat fitted to GWR's Mk3s might work in a Turbo, I think the seats in the LNER / Mk4 carriages might be too bulky.

Of course, it isn't that simple, given all the fixed stuff under the seats - the Chiltern 165s had to retain 3+2 in the middle section of each coach because of this.
 

DelW

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There is something VERY wrong with the interiors when used on long routes such as Cardiff - Portsmouth and that is 2 + 3 seating.
No Portsmouth Cardiff is 5 car Turbos for the foreseeable future, as far as comfort is concerned they are very much not appropriate for the route.
Of course a lot of Portsmouth to London trains are 3+2 seating as well!
 

TEW

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Of course a lot of Portsmouth to London trains are 3+2 seating as well!
Although a part of First/MTRs bid for the South Western franchise was providing 2+2 seating on all fast Portsmouth to London services, and it is something they made a fairly big deal of.
 

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