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International travel for the unvaccinated

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Citybreak1

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Effectively, yes. The Dutch government website doesn't link to the relevant law, but from what it describes, the "EU entry ban" applies only to people travelling from non-EU countries.

There is a health declaration form to fill out, but given that there are no routine passport checks between Scotland and Ireland, the ban is de facto unenforceable even if it theoretically applies to your situation.
Yep personally I rather wait off I tend to take Eurostar. Norway is fully open as is many others. Given England is fully open I can see myself doing more stay cautions this year.
 
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island

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there are no routine passport checks between Scotland and Ireland
This isn't correct. Passports are systematically checked on passengers arriving by air into the Republic of Ireland from Scotland.
 

nw1

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This isn't correct. Passports are systematically checked on passengers arriving by air into the Republic of Ireland from Scotland.

Is that passports or is that just ID for general security purposes, same as for domestic flights?

If passports are required, that is presumably violating the Common Travel Area, isn't it?
 
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danm14

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But an EU citizen with a high fever, severe cough and loss of taste and smell is doubtless allowed into the Netherlands without any restrictions whatsoever. That is where all logic breaks down.
Oh it gets better than that. They're only welcome if they travel by rail or sea - the health declaration that must be completed to travel by air (only) would filter them out.
 

nw1

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Oh it gets better than that. They're only welcome if they travel by rail or sea - the health declaration that must be completed to travel by air (only) would filter them out.

Ah ok, didn't realise that was needed. But as you say, if it's not needed on a rail trip then there's no logic.
 

island

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Is that passports or is that just ID for general security purposes, same as for domestic flights?

If passports are required, that is presumably violating the Common Travel Area, isn't it?
Flights from Great Britain to Irish airports decant into the same arrival flow as flights from anywhere else (I am not sure how Ireland's few remaining domestic flights work). Passengers go to the same passport control desks and need to present passports. In principle, Irish and British citizens can travel within the CTA without a passport, but must still prove that they are Irish or British, which in effect means producing a passport, although officers are said to accept reasonable alternatives such as a driving licence with a UK or Irish place of birth marked.

This has been the case since (at least) the early 2000s; I tried waving my boarding pass stub from a UK airport at an officer in Dublin Airport in about 2004 and got an earful for my troubles.
 

Mag_seven

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That is where all logic breaks down.

There never was any logic to break down! These petty travel restrictions are now all completely pointless. It just seems that politicians having exercised tremendous power over our lives for the last two years just don't want to give it all up.
 

GodAtum

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I'm looking for holiday ideas for countries with no vaccine, testing or mask requirement. It seems like Ireland, Mexico, Norway and the Maldives look viable.

But those rules can change any time? What happens if I book a summer holiday and the rules suddenly change? Can I rebook or get a refund?
 

Watershed

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I'm looking for holiday ideas for countries with no vaccine, testing or mask requirement. It seems like Ireland, Mexico, Norway and the Maldives look viable.
Sherpa currently shows 23 countries as being open to unvaccinated people travelling from the UK:
1648066448877.png
though the Vatican City can probably be disregarded as there is no way of travelling there without passing through Italy! (which de facto controls the Covid restrictions there)

Several more countries are available if you don't mind making a quick trip over to Ireland first ;), including the Czech Republic, Denmark, the Faroe Islands, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland

But those rules can change any time? What happens if I book a summer holiday and the rules suddenly change? Can I rebook or get a refund?
That is purely down to the terms and conditions of the companies you book with. Most airlines offer a degree of booking flexibility but not the ability to refund your ticket, except on the most expensive tickets. Holiday package providers and hotels are generally more generous and a number do offer the ability to refund or cancel your booking.

The terms of travel insurance policies are gradually improving, and there are some policies that will now cover against risks such as catching Covid before or during your trip and FCO advice changing (including due to Covid). But I am not aware of any policy which covers you against a change in entry requirements - regardless of whether it's a blanket ban or only applies to people who are unvaccinated.
 

Cdd89

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It seems like Ireland, Mexico, Norway and the Maldives look viable.
Mexico’s mask requirements are highly dependent on the state, with some being extremely keen on them (even outdoors) and others not really using them at all. Research your specific destination carefully!
 

GodAtum

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Gibraltar sounds good but I think face masks are still mandatory there?
 

plugwash

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While I am a remainer, I will be open in my criticism of the EU on this. There is no logical reason, on Covid-risk grounds, to treat non-EU and EU citizens differently.
It's not just about covid risk though, it's about balancing off covid risk against other factors, such as EU freedom of movement rights and the general right of a traveller to return home.

Visiting other countries outside of a free movement area is a privilege, privileges can be restricted more easilly than rights.

When we left the EU, travel to EU countries (other than Ireland) was downgraded from a right to a privilege.
 

nw1

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It's not just about covid risk though, it's about balancing off covid risk against other factors, such as EU freedom of movement rights and the general right of a traveller to return home.

Visiting other countries outside of a free movement area is a privilege, privileges can be restricted more easilly than rights.

When we left the EU, travel to EU countries (other than Ireland) was downgraded from a right to a privilege.

It still doesn't make sense though, and still seems to me like the anti-foreigner ('foreigner' here being outside the EU) mentality of Farage and co, but in reverse.

If the risk of Covid isn't sufficiently great to prevent the 26 other EU countries visiting the Netherlands, then why does it make any difference if other countries with comparable Covid rates to EU countries are also allowed free access?

It does not make the government of the Netherlands look good IMO. It makes them appear insular and unwelcoming, rather than seeing non-EU foreigners as 'a good thing', for the economy and tourism. As I said above, it's the Brexit mentality, but in reverse.

Other EU countries such as Ireland, and other non-EU countries such as Norway, have thankfully chosen a different approach.
 
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AlterEgo

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It still doesn't make sense though, and still seems to me like the anti-foreigner ('foreigner' here being outside the EU) mentality of Farage and co, but in reverse.

If the risk of Covid isn't sufficiently great to prevent the 26 other EU countries visiting the Netherlands, then why does it make any difference if other countries with comparable Covid rates to EU countries are also allowed free access?

It does not make the government of the Netherlands look good IMO. It makes them appear insular and unwelcoming, rather than seeing non-EU foreigners as 'a good thing', for the economy and tourism. As I said above, it's the Brexit mentality, but in reverse.

Other EU countries such as Ireland, and other non-EU countries such as Norway, have thankfully chosen a different approach.
Agreed. Most of Europe is very pragmatic with this. You can enter the Netherlands anyway with no checks by land and/or if you’re otherwise already inside the Schengen area, so these rules are just unnecessarily hostile.
 

Citybreak1

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Lithuania and Sweden now fully open ignoring EU entry ban just been announced. Wonder why places like Holland continue it?
 

nw1

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In a word, politics.

So what's in it for the Netherlands? What do they stand to gain? What's special about the Netherlands compared to most other EU countries?

Or is it that their government is just very authoritarian on these matters; remember they were one of a very small number of countries which implemented an Omicron lockdown, and if I remember correctly, their government had some pretty harsh words to say about protests triggered by this lockdown.

One can understand that, as a relatively wealthy country with much non-tourist-dependent industry, the Netherlands can probably "afford" to lose tourism in the way that other countries cannot, but it's still rather difficult to see the political reason behind it. For one thing, it's not doing their international reputation a lot of good (in the same way that some of us think Brexit didn't do the UK's international reputation a lot of good).
 

island

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For one thing, it's not doing their international reputation a lot of good
I’m not sure that’s true. Most people in the habit of international travel are vaccinated and care very little about restrictions on unvaccinated people.
 

nw1

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I’m not sure that’s true. Most people in the habit of international travel are vaccinated and care very little about restrictions on unvaccinated people.

Though there is the 270-day timeout thing, which excludes a lot more than the unvaccinated. So if you are double vaccinated, with the last dose late June last year or earlier, you are excluded if you haven't had the booster. (I am not sure if the booster is actually - from a medical rather than legal POV - necessary if you have had the double vaccination plus actual Covid; I have definitely heard opinions which suggest it isn't).

But the thing which I take issue with is not that. It's the differential treatment of EU and non-EU citizens in this respect, which is utterly illogical if the goal is to minimise the spread of the virus. Many countries have chosen not to make this distinction, and IMO those governments that are making it come across rather xenophobic (to non-EU citizens).

To me it's a friendliness thing, and in differentiating Covid checks on tourists depending on origin country using a measure other than case prevalence, the Netherlands government are coming across unfriendly and sending a message that they consider non-EU tourists an inconvenience. Utterly absurd that some non-EU country with almost no cases would have more stringent Covid checks than an EU country with a high case rate. And even worse that an EU citizen travelling from the UK, say, to the Netherlands would face no Covid checks.
 
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Bantamzen

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So what's in it for the Netherlands? What do they stand to gain? What's special about the Netherlands compared to most other EU countries?

Or is it that their government is just very authoritarian on these matters; remember they were one of a very small number of countries which implemented an Omicron lockdown, and if I remember correctly, their government had some pretty harsh words to say about protests triggered by this lockdown.

One can understand that, as a relatively wealthy country with much non-tourist-dependent industry, the Netherlands can probably "afford" to lose tourism in the way that other countries cannot, but it's still rather difficult to see the political reason behind it. For one thing, it's not doing their international reputation a lot of good (in the same way that some of us think Brexit didn't do the UK's international reputation a lot of good).
What's in it for the Netherlands? Nothing! What has been and still is driving these bizarre policies is political egos. When the pandemic broke out, politicians the world over tried to "defeat" the virus using all manner of nonsensical policies, none of which have really worked because the virus has spread, as predicted by many to every corner of the world. Take the Italian policy for example, what happens on Day 271 after a second dose that doesn't happen on Day 271 after a third dose? All the vaccines, be they first, second or third doses provoke our immune systems into producing anti-bodies. Once the proteins used in them are dealt with, the immune system will quickly ramp down antibody production, probably long before Day 271. So this is a purely political measure aimed at giving the impression that they are "doing something", when in truth it will make bugger difference.

I suspect as some countries fully relax and tourists start flocking to them, these other countries still clinging to their restrictions that have large tourism sectors will quickly roll them back.
 

peterblue

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Realistically, if I enter Norway, is travel to Sweden allowed via Rail? Will there be any checks across borders?
 

Citybreak1

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Realistically, if I enter Norway, is travel to Sweden allowed via Rail? Will there be any checks across borders?
Sweden is now fully open and won’t be doing the EU ban wonder why Sweden went down this route yet Holland and others are not? Maybe Holland will ease up by the summer?

Sweden Denmark and Poland now joining non EU ban so fully open
 
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Dent

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I just saw this list if Eurpoean countries posted on Twitter, not sure whether it's accurate:

UK
Ireland
Denmark
Norway
Iceland
Poland
Montenegro
Hungary
Lithuania
Slovenia
Romania
Madeira
 

Watershed

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I just saw this list if Eurpoean countries posted on Twitter, not sure whether it's accurate:

UK
Ireland
Denmark
Norway
Iceland
Poland
Montenegro
Hungary
Lithuania
Slovenia
Romania
Madeira
Yes, that looks correct from a brief cross-reference of Sherpa (which has yet to be updated to reflect the fact that Danish entry restrictions were scrapped today) and the FCDO travel advice. There are also a few countries outside Europe which accept unvaccinated UK arrivals:

Aruba
Bahrain
Costa Rica
Curaçao
El Salvador
Gabon
Jordan
Mexico
Moldova (in Europe but not in your list)
Mongolia
Saudi Arabia
 

nw1

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Yes, that looks correct from a brief cross-reference of Sherpa (which has yet to be updated to reflect the fact that Danish entry restrictions were scrapped today) and the FCDO travel advice.

Interesting that the government of Hungary, whose Viktor Orban is generally regarded as one of the most authoritarian European leaders, is being one of the most relaxed on tourist entry.
 

Cloud Strife

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Interesting that the government of Hungary, whose Viktor Orban is generally regarded as one of the most authoritarian European leaders, is being one of the most relaxed on tourist entry.

That is more politics. In short, the Hungarian minorities in Romania and Ukraine, both of which have serious issues with unvaccinated people. They also vote for Orban en masse.

Flights from Great Britain to Irish airports decant into the same arrival flow as flights from anywhere else (I am not sure how Ireland's few remaining domestic flights work). Passengers go to the same passport control desks and need to present passports. In principle, Irish and British citizens can travel within the CTA without a passport, but must still prove that they are Irish or British, which in effect means producing a passport, although officers are said to accept reasonable alternatives such as a driving licence with a UK or Irish place of birth marked.

This has been the case since (at least) the early 2000s; I tried waving my boarding pass stub from a UK airport at an officer in Dublin Airport in about 2004 and got an earful for my troubles.

Strictly speaking, Ireland doesn't require anything. They prefer some kind of photo ID (but this can be really anything, even a bus pass or a work ID), but there's no requirement as such to carry something as a British or Irish citizen. If you turn up with nothing, they will ask to see your boarding pass and engage you in conversation. If it becomes clear that you aren't British or Irish (from the accent, for instance) - then they can pull you aside until they verify that you are who you say you are.

There's definitely no need for a passport as a British or Irish citizen coming from the UK.
 

185143

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This isn't correct. Passports are systematically checked on passengers arriving by air into the Republic of Ireland from Scotland.
Yet if you sail...

I sailed from Wales to Ireland recently and didn't even have to produce ID, never mind a passport. Which is good as I don't have my passport!
 

berneyarms

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That is more politics. In short, the Hungarian minorities in Romania and Ukraine, both of which have serious issues with unvaccinated people. They also vote for Orban en masse.



Strictly speaking, Ireland doesn't require anything. They prefer some kind of photo ID (but this can be really anything, even a bus pass or a work ID), but there's no requirement as such to carry something as a British or Irish citizen. If you turn up with nothing, they will ask to see your boarding pass and engage you in conversation. If it becomes clear that you aren't British or Irish (from the accent, for instance) - then they can pull you aside until they verify that you are who you say you are.

There's definitely no need for a passport as a British or Irish citizen coming from the UK.
The basic test is that the Irish immigration official has to satisfy him or herself that the person is entitled to avail of the CTA provisions - as you say they will have their own techniques to do so.

Yet if you sail...

I sailed from Wales to Ireland recently and didn't even have to produce ID, never mind a passport. Which is good as I don't have my passport!

They do have checks on sailings too - not all the time but the perceived level risk of illegal entry into the country was significantly higher by air which is why we have the airport checks into Ireland.
 

185143

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The basic test is that the Irish immigration official has to satisfy him or herself that the person is entitled to avail of the CTA provisions - as you say they will have their own techniques to do so.



They do have checks on sailings too - not all the time but the perceived level risk of illegal entry into the country was significantly higher by air which is why we have the airport checks into Ireland.
That's understandable. We did have a combination of security and Police searching bags though.
 
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