Ipswich Peterborough hourly?

[Tobbes]

Quick question: there was talk of Ipswich-Peterborough moving up to hourly from 1tp2h. Does anyone know if this is still happening, and if so, when?

 

[Bald Rick]

Needs Ely sorting and a lot of LX work. Not funded. Receding over the horizon in the current circumstances I’d say.

 

[dk1]

Quick question: there was talk of Ipswich-Peterborough moving up to hourly from 1tp2h. Does anyone know if this is still happening, and if so, when?

It’s a long way off yet I’m afraid.

 

[Tobbes]

Thanks @Bald Rick and @dk1 Shame! I was looking to use it to commute, but (esp in the morning!) it could hardly be less appealing - 0600 to get to work at 0745 or 0803 and office at 1000. If it were an 0700....

 

[Alfie1014]

Not until Ely is sorted, which is expected to be in the next Control Period (2024-29).

 

[Tobbes]

Many thanks to all

 

[TheBigD]

Not until Ely is sorted, which is expected to be in the next Control Period (2024-29).

Unless it has recently changed, 2031 was the completion date.

There a specific thread on here somewhere for Ely North Junction.

 

[Class 170101]

Needs Ely sorting and a lot of LX work. Not funded. Receding over the horizon in the current circumstances I’d say.

Possibly, although I'd love to know how EMR got this one past Network Rail if work north of Ely is required.

Realtime Trains - 1R88 2008 Norwich to Nottingham

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

Possibly, although I'd love to know how EMR got this one past Network Rail if work north of Ely is required.

Realtime Trains - 1R88 2008 Norwich to Nottingham

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Sorry I don’t understand.

 

[43074]

Possibly, although I'd love to know how EMR got this one past Network Rail if work north of Ely is required.

Realtime Trains - 1R88 2008 Norwich to Nottingham

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That is one additional train, not 16 additional train movements per day.

Given the level crossings were a major reason why getting an extra trains per hour on the North Downs line has been such a protracted affair it is reasonable the same would apply in this instance.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Sorry I don’t understand.

I don't get it either. Unless the junction margin at Ely North Junction is larger than 3 minutes which I very much doubt I really don't see the issue here.

Or unless hes talking about headway with 2E84.

 

[Tobbes]

Of the answer is simple number of paths through Ely North, I'd still respectfully suggest that they shuffle the timetable by an hour so that there is an 0700 Ipswich departure and a 1700 Peterborough departure to make it more useful for commuting along the line.

 

[Ianno87]

Possibly, although I'd love to know how EMR got this one past Network Rail if work north of Ely is required.

Realtime Trains - 1R88 2008 Norwich to Nottingham

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That's one single train passing through Ely at 2100, at a time when the infrastructure will not be being used to its maximum capacity.

Not the same as adding a number of trains in the middle of the day.

 

[Class 170101]

That is one additional train, not 16 additional train movements per day.

Given the level crossings were a major reason why getting an extra trains per hour on the North Downs line has been such a protracted affair it is reasonable the same would apply in this instance.

I don't get it either. Unless the junction margin at Ely North Junction is larger than 3 minutes which I very much doubt I really don't see the issue here.

Or unless hes talking about headway with 2E84.

That's one single train passing through Ely at 2100, at a time when the infrastructure will not be being used to its maximum capacity.

Not the same as adding a number of trains in the middle of the day.

43074 is right but I think @Bald Rick might say that a Level Crossing assessment is an all day one not just at any spot in time.

It was in the GA franchise as I recall to improve this service to hourly.

 

[Ianno87]

43074 is right but I think @Bald Rick might say that a Level Crossing assessment is an all day one not just at any spot in time.

Correct, but again the effect of one single extra train on the risk scores is likely to be negligible (I would imagine).

As I've posted on another thread, I suspect the consequence of this extra train is that the morning service off Norwich that runs as 4 cars to balance the stock that ends up at Norwich no longer needs to, so the number of rail vehicles across the crossings each day is unchanged.

 

[Class 170101]

Correct, but again the effect of one single extra train on the risk scores is likely to be negligible (I would imagine).

As I've posted on another thread, I suspect the consequence of this extra train is that the morning service off Norwich that runs as 4 cars to balance the stock that ends up at Norwich no longer needs to, so the number of rail vehicles across the crossings each day is unchanged.

But an extra service of course.

 

[JonathanH]

Of the answer is simple number of paths through Ely North, I'd still respectfully suggest that they shuffle the timetable by an hour so that there is an 0700 Ipswich departure and a 1700 Peterborough departure to make it more useful for commuting along the line.

Doesn't the usefulness of the departure times depend on working hours and which location sees the most commuting. Some people might consider a Peterborough departure at 1750 exactly the right time for a 9 - 5.30 job. There is a Cross Country service at 1716 from Peterborough which does the same stops through to Ely.

 

[Ianno87]

But an extra service of course.

Part of the scoring (AIUI) is the theoretical number of train passengers exposed to the safety risk (so 1 x 4 car weighs in the same as 2 x 2 car in those terms). That will offset (in part) the theoretical increase in risk of an incident from an extra train passing

 

[Bald Rick]

Of the answer is simple number of paths through Ely North, I'd still respectfully suggest that they shuffle the timetable by an hour so that there is an 0700 Ipswich departure and a 1700 Peterborough departure to make it more useful for commuting along the line.

One of the main purposes of that morning train is to provide a good connection from March and Whittlesey into a Kings Cross train at Peterborough, and also a decent northbound connection to York and further north. It’s the last train from March that will get you to London before 0900. It’s also very handy for passengers from Bury who need to be in the Kings Cross area for 0830ish.

43074 is right but I think @Bald Rick might say that a Level Crossing assessment is an all day one not just at any spot in time.

It was in the GA franchise as I recall to improve this service to hourly.

It is, but rarely does one train make much of a difference, particularly on a line as busy as this. As well as train count (as a proxy for level crossings interactions) another factor is the number of rail passenger vehicles that cross the crossing; in this case it sounds like there’s no change. The change in traffic is less than the 5% that usually seems a rerun of the risk assessments to be conducted, and the relevant Timetable Change Risk Assessment Group would consider the change in risk to be tolerable.

Conversely, the change driven by the Ely works is more than just lifting this service to hourly (which alone would be sufficient to drive a need to reassess), it is also to substantially increase freight traffic. That all drives a significant change in the risk assessments, which therefore must be mitigated where reasonably practical.

Lifting this to hourly was in the GA franchise spec; what was in for the level crossing mitigation is another question. But given that exactly the same principle applied when the service was doubled on the Esst Suffolk Line a decade ago, one hopes it wasn’t a surprise.

 

[Tobbes]

One of the main purposes of that train morning train is to provide a good connection from March and Whittlesey into a Kings Cross train at Peterborough, and also a decent northbound connection to York and further north. It’s the last train from March that will get you to London before 0900. It’s also very handy for passengers from Bury who need to be in the Kings Cross area for 0830ish.




It is, but rarely does one train make much of a difference, particularly on a line as busy as this. As well as train count (as a proxy for level crossings ginteractions) another factor is the number of rail passenger vehicles that cross the crossing; in this case it sounds like there’s no change. The change in traffic is less than the 5% that usually seems a rerun of the risk assessments to be conducted, and the relevant Timetable Change Risk Assessment Group would consider the change in risk to be tolerable.

Conversely, the change driven by the Ely works is more than just lifting this service to hourly (which alone would be sufficient to drive a need to reassess), it is also to substantially increase freight traffic. That all drives a significant change in the risk assessments, which therefore must be mitigated where reasonably practical.

Lifting this to hourly was in the GA franchise spec; what was in for the level crossing mitigation is another question. But given that exactly the same principle applied when the service was doubled on the Esst Suffolk Line a decade ago, one hopes it wasn’t a surprise.

Very interesting as ever @Bald Rick - thank you

 

[superjohn]

One of the main purposes of that morning train is to provide a good connection from March and Whittlesey into a Kings Cross train at Peterborough, and also a decent northbound connection to York and further north. It’s the last train from March that will get you to London before 0900. It’s also very handy for passengers from Bury who need to be in the Kings Cross area for 0830ish.

From my own observations, it also serves considerable school traffic to Peterborough.

It is almost always held outside Peterborough as well, making connections to the York stopper close at times.