Irish mk3's for scrap

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by killucan2, 20 Nov 2011.

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  1. killucan2

    killucan2 Member

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    Just heard a few days ago that a recycling company have visited Waterford yard to check out the two set of Mk 3 coaches stored there.

    I take it no buyers have been found for these coaches and the blowtorch looms.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 23 Nov 2011
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  3. GM078

    GM078 Member

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    A shame, but I suppose if there's nothing to be done with them then I suppose it's the logical outcome. At least it's not as bad as withdrawing the 2700s, they're not even fifteen years old! I suppose it's a bit like the way BR scrapped relatively new steam engines in the 60s.
     
  4. jonhewes

    jonhewes Member

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    Out of interest, why were the MKIIIs withdrawn? Surely a quick overhaul and new or re-engined locomotives would have been cheaper than the wholesale purchase of DMUs?
     
  5. GM078

    GM078 Member

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    They were withdrawn due to becoming surplus to requirements after the arrival of the 22000 class Intercity railcars. Though uninteresting from an enthusiast point of view, the ICRs do offer a lot more flexibility to the railway, for instance two 3-piece sets can come in on a morning service from a provincial location, then be split so you need not send a six car set out on a mid-morning off peak service. With a loco hauled you would have to split the carriages, find a second genny van, a shunt release loco, etc, for this. The ICRs are much more efficient in this regard. Obviously it also avoids the need for shunters, train guards, etc... They've also allowed train splitting to take place so that one service can have two destinations, this has been used on the services to the West of Ireland, whereby railcars split in Athlone to go to Galway and Westport respectively. It's sad to see the mkIIIs go, I and many others will miss them, but I suppose it's a bit like BR cutting up <10 year old 9Fs in the 1960s, they were just built at the end of their time (Well okay it's not as bad as BR scrapping 9Fs but still).

    If rumours on the Irish Railway News site are true (and I've no reason to believe they aren't) it would seem that the stored 201s may get a reprieve at some point in the future.

    Incidentally, at one point IÉ did do a costing exercise with regard to refurbishing some mkIIIs for use on Belfast services, but there was no funding forthcoming. Though the fact that they cut up most of the push/pull fitted mkIIIs would make such an operation awkward in terms of turnarounds.
     
  6. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Are the new units a DOO operation, on an intercity service?
     
  7. GM078

    GM078 Member

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    Yes. The only passenger trains to have a guard in the Irish Republic are the "Enterprise" and the Dublin-Cork mkIV sets (Guards are also used on RPSI outings, but that's about it).
     
  8. I T S

    I T S Member

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    Correction there - The Cork doesn't have a guard. The driver looks after the doors with being waved off at the manned stations while the Train host looks after the passengers and the checker checks their tickets.

    Belfast/Dublin retains a "Super"guard
     
  9. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Oh yes, we have some 'super' Guards at our place too!! :D ;)

    Seems a bit of a contradiction, having two on-board staff besides the Driver on a train which is DOO! Sort of defies the point I would have thought, or is there another reason for it besides just cost savings?!
     
    Last edited: 23 Nov 2011
  10. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Well I doubt the Train Host is paid anything like a Guard's wage, probably the same for the ticket checker.
     
  11. dubscottie

    dubscottie Member

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    Apparently only the Derby built Gen-vans and Buffets would have been allowed to work in the mainland UK without going through the whole certification process.

    Although the are passed to run in the UK (Northern Ireland still being part of) The Inchicore built stock would be classed as new stock on the mainland so would be a no no...

    Or so I have been told!

    Shame they could not have been used to make up a proper Pretendalino set(s)
     
  12. island

    island Established Member

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    There's no checker on Cork-Dublin trains any more, with the exception of early and late services when the booking offices aren't all open en route. There's a couple of RPIs who show up from time to time, generally between Limerick Junction and Mallow or Mallow and Cork, and sometimes a guy who sits in first while the train is on the platform in Dublin and sells excesses.

    The train host is fully safety trained and can do all the things a guard used to do when needed. They handle wheelchair ramps and manual announcements when needed. Beyond that in general around half of the train hosts sit in first and read a magazine and the other half go up and down the train looking to help people, go to the buffet car for elderly or limited-mobility passengers, and what-not.

    Each station has a dispatcher who uses a white light or hand signal for CD and a green flag for RA.
    Many train hosts used to be guards and would be protected on their old wage, and given their emergency duties I'd be surprised if the unions had accepted much of a decrease.

    The Enterprise also often has no ticket examiner, but one isn't especially needed as all stations on the route bar Dundalk are gated. The guard behaves similarly to Virgin TMs and sometimes locks off a local door etc.

    The 22K services sometimes have a ticket examiner and might have a catering trolley, but are properly DOO.

    The Irish Rail Mk3s would need to be rebogeyed etc. to work in GB given the gauge difference (1.6m vs 1.435m).
     
  13. Yew

    Yew Established Member

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    I think we had some railway engineers say on here, that it would just need new axles
     
  14. island

    island Established Member

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    I shall defer to them.

    I liked the Cravens myself...
     
  15. GM078

    GM078 Member

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    Well yes technically the Corks don't have a "guard" per se, but as another poster pointed out the Train Host undertakes many of the duties of a guard, whereas most IÉ services are just operated by the driver (discounting the checker though not all services have one).


    Me too, though the mkIIIs were probably superior in comfort, from an enthusiast perspective the Cravens are far more distinctive than mkIIs and mkIIIs. Even if no Irish mkIIIs escape the cutter's torch at least they'll still be some in the UK (genny vans and p/p units excepted, but the basic type will remain). Funny, I've often seen the Cravens incorrectly referred to as mkI, despite the fact that they have more in common with a mkII and we never had mkIs. I had better stop rambling...
     
  16. I T S

    I T S Member

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    I doubt the 2 sets in Dundalk would be easy to move. They haven't moved in over 3 years
     
  17. 89-763-733

    89-763-733 Member

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    I think Moyasta is still hoping to get 6105-6301-6305-6402 but this is probably dependant on getting planning permission for the museum there
     
  18. GM078

    GM078 Member

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    I think there's one other push-pull control car left as well, the number escapes me (6101?). 6105 is significant as the last carriage to be assembled/partly constructed at Inchicore.
     
  19. I T S

    I T S Member

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    The Enterprise also often has no ticket examiner, but one isn't especially needed as all stations on the route bar Dundalk are gated. The guard behaves similarly to Virgin TMs and sometimes locks off a local door etc.



    The Enterprise services worked by NIR have a fully qaulified guard & ticket examiner. Basically the same person doing both jobs. IE worked trains are booked for guard & checker how ever it's another story whether they have a checker or not.

    Dundalk is gated. Fully manned at the barrier with ticket vending machines
     
  20. 89-763-733

    89-763-733 Member

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    6101 is right. Only 4 pushpull intermediates of the 19 have been scrapped so far: 6310 6311 6315 6316
     
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