Irlam Station Language signs

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe there are signs in Japanese or similar at Moreton-in-Marsh, on the Cotswolds line between Oxford and Worcester.

 

[WestCoast]

I get the impression it's done for two reasons;

a) to reflect the local area, if there's high proportion of speakers of a certain non-English language. Probably as a result of council or local business involvement.
b) a service to a common nationality of tourists who are much less likely to be able to comprehend English/Latin Alphabet signage (e.g. signs in Japanese at beauty spots).

I doubt it's going to become all that commonplace. A more controversial topic is the influence that English has had on railway terminology in non-English speaking countries (e.g. DB using terms like 'ServiceCenter', 'SnackPoint' and 'Tickets', OBB with their 'businesszones' and SBB/CFF's 'ticket shops'!).

 

[jopsuk]

Pretty sure that other than Welsh and Gaelic, additional languages on railway signs are in the main paid for by community groups/station adoption groups/local tourist boards. If they want to do that, really, what's the harm?

With the Gaelic signs it does get ridiculous in the Lowlands, especially in parts of the east where Gaelic was never the language and the place names don't have Gaelic roots (Edinburgh is a prime example- " Dùn Èideann" is gaelicisation of the name)- or for that matter the norse-dominated place names of the far north

 

[tbtc]

With the Gaelic signs it does get ridiculous in the Lowlands, especially in parts of the east where Gaelic was never the language and the place names don't have Gaelic roots (Edinburgh is a prime example- " Dùn Èideann" is gaelicisation of the name)- or for that matter the norse-dominated place names of the far north

Agreed - it just looks silly when you see Gaelic signs at places like Airdrie (IIRC) - next we'll have people arguing about what iPod is in Cornish...

 

[Michael.Y]

Dreckly Kerth My Ear

 

[merlodlliw]

ATW don't have bilingual station signage on the English side of the border to the best of my knowledge, unless you count Knighton, and only have it Wales when the two names are different; although I do believe Port Talbot Parkway could be monolingual as the translation would simply, and pointlessly move "Parkway" to the start. Smaller notices like trespass warnings etc can be seen in Welsh. Also of course onboard pixel displays and signage is bilingual.

They do Michael, all signage on poster displays in England managed by ATW stations have Welsh inserted.
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It's been put in by the Friends of the station, it's not official signage but they probably thought it would be helpful to some people to have it there. It would be irrelevant in court.

Incidentally, apparently ATW don't have to have dual-language signage officially, although I'm sure there would be a few things said if they ever decided to get rid of it!

Has ATW is funded by Welsh Govt, it must have dual lang signage, where appropriate,All ATW timetables available at Manchester for example are dual lang,ATW poster displays at Piccadilly station put up by NR are also dual Lang.

 

[Requeststop]

I believe there are signs in Japanese or similar at Moreton-in-Marsh, on the Cotswolds line between Oxford and Worcester.

Correct.

From the Daily Mail site: Cotswold tourist chiefs love Japanese visitors so much they have put up welcoming signs in their language at a railway station.
A number of messages directing them to buses, taxis, hotels and public toilets, have gone up in Moreton in Marsh, Gloucestershire.
The signs are the idea of station manager Teresa Ceesay, who noticed that staff were increasingly being asked for information and directions by Japanese tourists.
First Great Western paid £350 to install the signs which are sometimes longer than in English because so many complex characters are used.
'We've had a very positive reaction from Japanese visitors with many saying thank you,' said Teresa.

'The Cotswolds is so well promoted in Japan. It's just to help tourists when they arrive.

 

[Bellwater]

Agreed - it just looks silly when you see Gaelic signs at places like Airdrie (IIRC) - next we'll have people arguing about what iPod is in Cornish...

Should be in some drunken gibberish for Airdrie and Drumgelloch.

 

[PFX]

With the Gaelic signs it does get ridiculous in the Lowlands, especially in parts of the east where Gaelic was never the language and the place names don't have Gaelic roots

Except that Glaschu was the largest population of Gaelic speakers in Scotland for many years.

I don't understand why people get so worked up because there's another language on a sign. I take it the person who posted the original xenophobic gibberish wouldn't consider a trip outwith England for fear of encountering a multi-lingual sign, starting at the Scottish border "Fáilte gu hAlba"?

 

[tbtc]

Except that Glaschu was the largest population of Gaelic speakers in Scotland for many years

Glasgow probably also has Scotland's largest population of Urdu speakers, Scotland's largest population of Portuguese speakers and Scotland's largest population of Arabic speakers, what with it being Scotland's largest place and everything.

None of them are particularly "native" tongues in the area though.

And please don't get me started on Ulster Scots...

 

[cuccir]

At Wallsend Metro, the station signs are in English and Latin!

I think the metro terminal at Newcastle Airport also has signs in Norwegian?

If there is a significant minority of people using a station who's first language is not English, then it seems entirely reasonable to have signs in both languages. There's nothing wrong with helping someone out through half a dozen signs. Whether visitors/immigrants want to learn English is frankly up to them, but if you spend any length of time here you're certainly making your life easier you speak English...

 

[L&Y Robert]

I think the metro terminal at Newcastle Airport also has signs in Norwegian?

If there is a significant minority of people using a station who's first language is not English, then it seems entirely reasonable to have signs in both languages.

Sorry - which languages exactly? A quick Goog of "Newcastle Airport" shows traffic to and from France, Germany, Poland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, Greece, Croatia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Tunisia, Mexico . . . . and some others. And of course, it will change.

Now here's an idea:

If the signage were to be on SCREENS, then they could put up signs in the language of the traffic they were experiencing right then. And it could alternate; French now, Spanish in a few seconds, French again and oops - mustn't forget English. Colour coded maybe . . . Fully automatic according to the timetable, you see.

 

[Michael.Y]

They do Michael, all signage on poster displays in England managed by ATW stations have Welsh inserted.

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That's what I said... But the station identifying signs aren't, i.e. Shrewsbury / Amwythig.

 

[DarloRich]

There should be no signs in Welsh or Scottish (or whatever names you give them!). They are the dead languages of none existent countries. Just face it - you either lost your battles or were tricked out of your country. You are now part of England. Deal with it. (There, that should upset someone! )

FFS - what does it matter if someone bungs up a few signs in a different language. It isn’t an attack on all things English nor is it an attempt to further oppress the English masses in the face of an influx of a bourgeois, privileged intelligentsia, nor is it a worldwide Jewish/Communist led conspiracy to overthrow the natural order of things nor is it an attempt to introduce sharia law into England nor is it even a big problem!

If anything it follows the fine English tradition of fair play, decency and supporting the under dog! I mean god forbid that someone might actually be encouraged to use or understand HOW to use a railway station

Jesus Christ Ray! Some people :roll:

 

[PR1Berske]

English is the language of our country, not Chinese, or Urdu, or anything else. If we start putting up signs in other languages we are creating a priveliged minority for those whose language it is. How far are we going? How many languages? Where displayed? In the tube? Road signs? Imagine the defence in court "I didnt know there was NO PARKING here, the signs are not in my language". English is what we speak, and if you are living here then the onus is ON YOU to grasp at least the essentials of signage so you can get around.

Oh for heaven's sake :roll::roll:

Has the 21st century passed you by?

 

[transmanche]

I think the metro terminal at Newcastle Airport also has signs in Norwegian?

Sorry - which languages exactly? A quick Goog of "Newcastle Airport" shows traffic to and from France, Germany, Poland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, Greece, Croatia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Tunisia, Mexico . . . . and some others. And of course, it will change.

I can't say I've seen any Norwegian signs at Airport Metro station, but then I'm normally in a hurry as I pass through.

However, if there are signs in Norwegian, then it's probably down to the friendship & cultural links with Norway - and not an attempt to be Politically Correct. E.g. I guess most people know that Oslo sends London a Christmas tree every year - but how many know that Bergen sends one to Newcastle? And of course pronunciation of many words in a Geordie accent has more in common with Norwegian than 'standard' English.

 

[Squaddie]

There should be no signs in Welsh or Scottish (or whatever names you give them!). They are the dead languages of none existent countries. Just face it - you either lost your battles or were tricked out of your country. You are now part of England. Deal with it. (There, that should upset someone! )

I don't think anyone is going get upset by anything someone writes on an internet forum, especially if it is written with the sole intention of inflaming others.

But you should at least try to get your facts right, as you risk making yourself look stupid. A "dead language" is one that has no native speakers, and neither Welsh nor Scottish Gaelic fall into that category. Welsh, for example, is spoken by 600,000 people - which is rather more than speak some other European languages such as Icelandic.

Furthermore, Wales and Scotland are not "part of England" - and that is a fact. All three are part of the United Kingdom. And let's not forget that Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments/assemblies, whereas England doesn't.

 

[transmanche]

But you should at least try to get your facts right, as you risk making yourself look stupid.

Hmmm, I'm not sure if you're being ironic yourself - or just simply missed the obvious irony in DarloRich's comment.

 

[tbtc]

But you should at least try to get your facts right, as you risk making yourself look stupid. A "dead language" is one that has no native speakers, and neither Welsh nor Scottish Gaelic fall into that category. Welsh, for example, is spoken by 600,000 people - which is rather more than speak some other European languages such as Icelandic

To me, a "dead language" is one which has no "exclusive speakers". For example, tens of thousands of people around the world will know some Latin but almost none of them will exclusively speak it.

Are you meaning that those 600,000 people in Wales (out of a population of three million, ten times the size of Iceland) only speak Welsh? Or that most of them speak it alongside English?

Whereas Iceland may be a lot smaller than Wales, but Icelandic people can live their life only needing to communicate in their language.

(just my definition of "dead" - not claiming its the official one)

 

[transmanche]

To me, a "dead language" is one which has no "exclusive speakers". For example, tens of thousands of people around the world will know some Latin but almost none of them will exclusively speak it.

Are you meaning that those 600,000 people in Wales (out of a population of three million, ten times the size of Iceland) only speak Welsh? Or that most of them speak it alongside English?

Whereas Iceland may be a lot smaller than Wales, but Icelandic people can live their life only needing to communicate in their language.

(just my definition of "dead" - not claiming its the official one)

And by your own definition, Icelandic must be a virtually dead language. Being that learning both English and Danish is compulsory in Icelandic schools, virtually all Icelanders have some knowledge of a foreign language - so very few will be "exclusive speakers" of Icelandic.

My Dad was an exclusive speaker of Welsh and spoke no English until he went to junior school - where English was taught as a second language. So, FWIW, I reckon it would be possible to live in Wales without needing to speak English at all.

 

[tbtc]

I reckon it would be possible to live in Wales without needing to speak English at all

Do you think that the number who do so are anything like 600,000?

 

[transmanche]

Do you think that the number who do so are anything like 600,000?

I didn't claim that there were. I said it was possible. Whereas (unless you are a regular use of Wallsend Metro), it wouldn't be possible to do so if you spoke only Latin.

Your definition of a dead language is nonsensical; as (off the top of my head) it encompasses Welsh, Irish Gaelic, most Scandinavian languages and Dutch.

 

[Yew]

There should be no signs in Welsh or Scottish (or whatever names you give them!). They are the dead languages of none existent countries. Just face it - you either lost your battles or were tricked out of your country. You are now part of England. Deal with it. (There, that should upset someone! )

Maybe instead we should put signs up in chav and yorkshire?

'Da platform iz ova there innit.'

'Stan' Back, T'train 'bout t' bugger off t'alifax'

 

[merlodlliw]

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That's what I said... But the station identifying signs aren't, i.e. Shrewsbury / Amwythig.

No Michael that's not what you said, read what you put up, hence my reply,you made no remark about station identifying signs,
this is what you put up" ATW don't have bilingual station signage on the English side of the border to the best of my knowledge"

 

[Squaddie]

To me, a "dead language" is one which has no "exclusive speakers". For example, tens of thousands of people around the world will know some Latin but almost none of them will exclusively speak it.

But there are no native speakers of Latin.

By your definition, there are dozens of dead languages being spoken daily by millions of people across the world, including Swiss German, Catalan and, quite possibly, Danish and Finnish.

I'm not getting a discussion about whether Welsh and Scottish Gaelic should be recognised, because in my experience such arguments are fruitless. But your definition of a "dead" language is factually incorrect.

 

[Michael.Y]

No Michael that's not what you said, read what you put up, hence my reply,you made no remark about station identifying signs,
this is what you put up" ATW don't have bilingual station signage on the English side of the border to the best of my knowledge"

You're just nitpicking.... I'm interested what you take "station signage" to mean? I take it to mean the name of the station, the "exit" and "lift" and "platform" general signs etc. I do not take it to mean posters or, as I said, warning notices like "do not trespass on the railways" etc.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't think anyone is going get upset by anything someone writes on an internet forum, especially if it is written with the sole intention of inflaming others.

But you should at least try to get your facts right, as you risk making yourself look stupid. A "dead language" is one that has no native speakers, and neither Welsh nor Scottish Gaelic fall into that category. Welsh, for example, is spoken by 600,000 people - which is rather more than speak some other European languages such as Icelandic.

Furthermore, Wales and Scotland are not "part of England" - and that is a fact. All three are part of the United Kingdom. And let's not forget that Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments/assemblies, whereas England doesn't.

Woah - Irony detection failure!

I was trying to point out that having signs in languages other than English is normal in many parts of the UK. I would imagine they might be needed more and more as the number of speakers of Gaelic (either Welsh, Scottish or Irish!) continues to grow.

The WHOLE point was to try and show up the stupidty if people who think otherwise - it kind of fails when you have to explain it!

 

[tbtc]

But there are no native speakers of Latin.

By your definition, there are dozens of dead languages being spoken daily by millions of people across the world, including Swiss German, Catalan and, quite possibly, Danish and Finnish.

I'm not getting a discussion about whether Welsh and Scottish Gaelic should be recognised, because in my experience such arguments are fruitless. But your definition of a "dead" language is factually incorrect.

But there are more people who understand Latin in the world than there are people who understand Wales - I'm making the point that saying "six hundred thousand people can speak Welsh" isn't relevant, it's "how many thousand people speak only Welsh" that is the important question (which it appears nobody can answer), because they are the people who *need* signs in Welsh (for everyone else it's not necessary, but may be nice to have for political/ touristy reasons).

There are a number of people (esp first generation female immigrants) who can speak *only* their native tongue, which is why having something like Urdu/ Chinese can be critically important for people in certain areas of the UK.

 

[transmanche]

But there are more people who understand Latin in the world than there are people who understand Wales

Is that a fact, or just a guess? How many people actually converse in Latin daily and use it as part of their normal lives?

it's "how many thousand people speak only Welsh" that is the important question (which it appears nobody can answer), because they are the people who *need* signs in Welsh (for everyone else it's not necessary, but may be nice to have for political/ touristy reasons)

Ah, so just because someone happens to speak English as well as Welsh, they don't have a right to expect signs etc to be in their mother tongue?

By your logic, all Dutch language signs in the Netherlands should be replaced by English language versions - as there are relatively few 'people who *need* signs' in Dutch.

Just because someone in Wales speaks English doesn't mean it's their preferred method of communication.

 

[tbtc]

Ah, so just because someone happens to speak English as well as Welsh, they don't have a right to expect signs etc to be in their mother tongue?

By your logic, all Dutch language signs in the Netherlands should be replaced by English language versions - as there are relatively few 'people who *need* signs' in Dutch.

Just because someone in Wales speaks English doesn't mean it's their preferred method of communication.

I'm trying to differentiate between the "essential to have" signs (where a large number of people don't speak/read English, and so bi-lingual signage is essential" and the "nice to have"signage (where you expect people to understand English, but may wish to provide bi-lingual signs for political/ touristy/ polite reasons".

For example, most people in Scotland don't speak Gaelic, most people who can speak Gaelic, Gaelic speakers are in particular parts of the country, so having Gaelic signage in somewhere like Airdrie (where it has no history) is a political gimmick.

Language and nationality are two different things.