Is anyone else feeling politically homeless?

[Sprinter153]

Is anyone else feeling like they’ve nowhere to go politically?

I’ve been a card-carrying Labour member for my entire adult life, though we’ve had our ups and downs (the Corbyn years were spent in a perpetual state of cringe). I believe that now more than ever, with this mesmerically callous cabinet of mediocrities, we desperately need a caring, competent opposition to hold the government to account.

Despite this I just can’t square myself with the Left’s political response to Covid. There just seems to be a constant clamour for earlier, longer, harder lockdowns with no heed for people’s livelihoods or mental health; lobbying for a ban on online anti-vaccine content (stopping people saying things we don’t like); demanding a shift to a completely unrealistic ‘zero-Covid’ policy (only smallpox has ever been eradicated); and, in Wales, compounding the destruction of livelihoods for the ‘fire break’ by preventing the retail businesses that stayed open from selling anything arbitrarily deemed ‘non-essential’. Surely there are better songs to sing than this?

A proportion of the Left have decided that anyone with even a hint of scepticism about lockdowns or their carefully chosen scientific data is a hard-right Brexiter, a ‘Covidiot’ (yawn) or someone who doesn’t care about the death rate or the NHS.

Masks have become a religion and there is little tolerance for any expression of dislike regarding them. There’s even widespread support for requiring them going forward.

I don’t know where to go any more. the Lib Dems have been abnormally quiet lately after a leadership election in which the genuinely progressive candidate was rejected in favour of the Coalition veteran who described that period as having ‘many successes’. Having said that Layla Moran is a staunch ‘zero-Covid’ fan too. Caroline Lucas of the Green Party, who is usually a really impressive orator, just spent most of a recent episode of Radio 4’s Any Questions clamouring for heavier restrictions. I found myself agreeing with Richard Tice, which has been an alarming wake-up to how divorced I am from my natural political home.

I could never lend my support to the likes of the Tories or the Brexit Party Ltd, who exist to exploit people’s worst prejudices for political gain.

The only peep I’ve heard about mental health is Rosena Allin-Khan’s repeated requests for more mental health support for NHS staff. That’s great but what about the general population who are struggling with a lockdown-happy policy perpetuated by the comfortable, cloistered political classes.

I’m sorry if this is somewhat incoherent but I just feel like there’s nowhere to go. If you mention this kind of thing on Twitter you just get told to go and join Farage or called a Tory.

 

[Scotrail12]

Yes and in all honesty, I think it's making me more right leaning than before. After disliking Corbyn and his running of the Labour Party, I was eager to support Starmer and I do think he has the makings of a good leader but I just can't with his COVID ideas and ultimately that weakens my support for him going forward so I don't really have anywhere to go now. I guess that does make me politically homeless. I was never on the SNP train to begin with and whilst I already knew that Boris Johnson was ill equipped to be PM, this just exposes his deficiencies even further (I didn't mind Conservative PM's such as Cameron).

My trouble with left wingers is kinda similar to what you're saying - they have no tolerance towards other viewpoints and get aggressive. In a way, they're actually illiberal because they don't seem to respect freedom of thought and freedom of speech.

 

[MikeWM]

Very much agree; I left the Labour party in the summer, in the most part due to their approach to Covid.

Until this year I would have considered myself a natural Labour voter, and at least in the past when they have gone through a bad patch there have been alternatives with credible policies in the shape of the Greens or, on occasion, the Liberal Democrats.

Now, I have nowhere to go. The one difference is that I *would* vote for pretty much anyone who advocated a sensible approach to Covid, as I think currently this is far and away the most important political issue, probably of my lifetime. I'd prefer others to be doing it - I'd like to see the SDP on the ballot paper for example - but I really would hold my nose and vote for Farage on this if necessary. (For the same reason, I'd have - reluctantly - voted for Trump in the US election).

I guess only time will tell if over the last year I really have moved from being an enthusiastic Corbyn supporter to somewhere right of Genghis Khan, or whether it is just the insane current political climate that is totally distorting everything.

 

[nlogax]

Is anyone else feeling like they’ve nowhere to go politically?

Yes, but Covid has nothing to do with it.

 

[duncanp]

I have been a Conservative leaning voter most of my life, although I have on occasions voted for other parties.

I am thoroughly cheesed off with the way Boris Johnson has handled the COVID-19 crisis, and will not vote Conservative again whilst he is still leader.

My gripe with Boris is that he allows himself to be swayed too easily by alarmist predictions from the likes of Professors Pantsdown and Twitty, that use dodgy data and are deliberately designed to scare him into taking the desired course of action. It has been said the Boris "..doesn't do detail....". Well that simply isn't good enough. You need to be able to look at the information that is put in front of you with a critical mind, and ask the right questions, as Margaret Thatcher (with a science degree) would have done.

Take, for example, the statement today from Susan Hopkins, the chief medical officer to NHS Test & Trace (how's that going by the way? What's the latest success rate for reaching contacts?) that for "..every day of Christmas freedom will result in two days of extra restrictions..." The Prime Minister, or at least someone in government should be questioning this and asking where you get the figure of two days from. Why not three days, five days or half a day?

And the rest of the cabinet, apart from Rishi Sunak, are a complete load of wet blankets who are frightened of saying boo to a goose, for fear of being accused of animal cruelty.

So, unless someone like Sajid Javid or Rishi Sunak is Prime Minister at the time of the next General Election, I shall be voting for Nigel Farage's Reform Party, not necessarily because I agree with everything that Mr Farage says, but as a means of protest. What we really need is an English equivalent for the SNP, ie. a party that can provide a genuine alternative to the established parties, and Mr Farage's new party is the closest we have to any such alternative at the moment.

 

[Logan Carroll]

All political parties are horrible, some are more horrible than others but that is no reason to vote for them.

unless its a referendum with a clear decision i find it hard to get fired up about any particular side.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is anyone else feeling like they’ve nowhere to go politically?

A certain J. Corbyn Esq.?

P.S. Is it me, or have the Labour Party (UK) repeatedly shot themselves in the foot in recent years by having the "wrong" person as the party leader?

 

[pdq]

Despite this I just can’t square myself with the Left’s political response to Covid. There just seems to be a constant clamour for earlier, longer, harder lockdowns with no heed for people’s livelihoods or mental health;

I think it's right that the opposition calls out the Government on its handling of lockdown (BTW I hate that term - we are not being physically locked up or down). As can be seen across the globe, the restrictions are clearly a necessary evil to help contain another evil. It is right that the government's delay in announcing the current restrictions is queried. Maybe tighter restrictions a few weeks earlier (and for less time) would have prevented the spike in cases from rising quite as dramatically. Maybe they wouldn't have - but it's definitely right to ask the questions and is what the opposition is for. A government that knows it will be questioned robustly on its decisions ought to take more care in making them.

And back to the main thread question - I feel like I do now have a party I can vote for. I have always voted Labour since my first vote in 1992. At the last GE I was really torn. I couldn't vote Conservative because they least match my values; I couldn't bring myself to vote Labour because, despite having a local MP I respect, I couldn't begin to contemplate the dogmatic carnage a Corbyn premiership would have brought. That left the LibDems - and they have really failed to show any point to them recently. As it happens, I unexpectedly had to be away from home on polling day, so I didn't have to go through the moral dilemma of where to put my X.

Kier Starmer may not be the most charismatic of leaders, but I think he is showing himself to have pragmatism, integrity and an attention to detail that is lacking in the current Government and was absent from Mr Corbyn's leadership. I again feel confident in giving Labour my vote for a progressive, left of centre, socially minded government.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm not, but I've been a Lib Dems voter for a long time. The paradox is that many people might align to the Lib Dems but don't see them getting much presence but that's because few people vote for them. A Catch-22 situation and additionally the media like to portray it that way. That being said, I'm not sure any party has got a fantastic response or strategy to the plans, but the "left-leaning" parties do at least seem to want to put proper resources into Test / Track / Trace.

 

[Logan Carroll]

A certain J. Corbyn Esq.?

P.S. Is it me, or have the Labour Party (UK) repeatedly shot themselves in the foot in recent years by having the "wrong" person as the party leader?

End the problem once and for all by having people voting for the leader of whatever party they choose.

 

[bramling]

I have been a Conservative leaning voter most of my life, although I have on occasions voted for other parties.

I am thoroughly cheesed off with the way Boris Johnson has handled the COVID-19 crisis, and will not vote Conservative again whilst he is still leader.

My gripe with Boris is that he allows himself to be swayed too easily by alarmist predictions from the likes of Professors Pantsdown and Twitty, that use dodgy data and are deliberately designed to scare him into taking the desired course of action. It has been said the Boris "..doesn't do detail....". Well that simply isn't good enough. You need to be able to look at the information that is put in front of you with a critical mind, and ask the right questions, as Margaret Thatcher (with a science degree) would have done.

Take, for example, the statement today from Susan Hopkins, the chief medical officer to NHS Test & Trace (how's that going by the way? What's the latest success rate for reaching contacts?) that for "..every day of Christmas freedom will result in two days of extra restrictions..." The Prime Minister, or at least someone in government should be questioning this and asking where you get the figure of two days from. Why not three days, five days or half a day?

And the rest of the cabinet, apart from Rishi Sunak, are a complete load of wet blankets who are frightened of saying boo to a goose, for fear of being accused of animal cruelty.

So, unless someone like Sajid Javid or Rishi Sunak is Prime Minister at the time of the next General Election, I shall be voting for Nigel Farage's Reform Party, not necessarily because I agree with everything that Mr Farage says, but as a means of protest. What we really need is an English equivalent for the SNP, ie. a party that can provide a genuine alternative to the established parties, and Mr Farage's new party is the closest we have to any such alternative at the moment.

I feel exactly the same. Rather disappointed with this government all round. We had a pretty duff choice back in December where it really was a case of picking the “least worst” rather than best. I had hoped that Boris would exceed what was a pretty low level of expectation, perhaps naively based on him not being a total disaster as London Mayor. Sadly the opposite has happened and I’m pretty appalled with various aspects of how this government is performing.

The trouble is Labour I think would be worse. Starmer himself seems reasonable (not stunning, but tolerable), but it’s quite clear a lot of the Corbyn set is still there. But they’ve managed to make a complete mess of the anti-semitism scandal, and that’s something which was in Labour’s gift to sort, so if they can’t do that then what hope is there.

As things stand at the moment it would be a protest vote for someone like Farage. A pretty dismally depressing state of affairs. I will hold my word that I will not vote Conservative whilst Johnson remains leader, and I’ve made that clear to my MP. He has been appalling on so many levels, both in terms of competence, attitude, communications and the whole seedy no.10 setup he has presided over.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

To answer the OP question in a word almost yes. I will be retiring back to the UK. I cant with a clear conscience vote Conservative like I have done my entire life. It is the most incompetent government in my lifetime. I had high hopes for Sir Keir Starmer but they have been dashed. I suppose I could vote Liberal Democrat if they started getting many more votes and hence me not having the feeling of a wasted vote.

 

[brad465]

What this crisis has shown is the Government have managed to unite a large group of the country against them, but those criticising them are split over their reasons for this: on the Opposition side it's criticism for acting late and/or half-hearted, but plenty of Tory Backbenchers and right wing media outlets are attacking the approach for many of the reasons shared on this forum about the unsustainability of our approach and loss of civil liberties.

The only supporters the Government have are anyone who are so victim to tribal politics that they support them regardless of how much they mess things up (and party donors who've benefitted financially from this): before covid the two different "tribes" were very clear, but all those opposing the Government from their own ranks have shown that they have their limits for how much they'll cotton onto everything the core Government actually does.

I'm in no way Conservative and don't see anything changing that, but if the backbenchers get their way and depose of Johnson while Covid is still causing problems they'll be working to ensure someone who completely changes the approach gets in - it wouldn't surprise me if the membership overall doesn't like the current strategy either.

 

[DustyBin]

I'm another natural conservative, however I would't even attempt to defend this hopeless government over it's shambolic handling of Covid-19. It's a disgrace and I won't be voting for them next time unless they have a thorough clear out. If that doesn't happen I suspect I'll have to vote for whatever party Farage is leading. As much as I have no time for the Labour party and certainly don't want them in power, I do find the lack of a credible opposition rather worrying, it's not good for politics.

 

[bramling]

What this crisis has shown is the Government have managed to unite a large group of the country against them, but those criticising them are split over their reasons for this: on the Opposition side it's criticism for acting late and/or half-hearted, but plenty of Tory Backbenchers and right wing media outlets are attacking the approach for many of the reasons shared on this forum about the unsustainability of our approach and loss of civil liberties.

The only supporters the Government have are anyone who are so victim to tribal politics that they support them regardless of how much they mess things up (and party donors who've benefitted financially from this): before covid the two different "tribes" were very clear, but all those opposing the Government from their own ranks have shown that they have their limits for how much they'll cotton onto everything the core Government actually does.

I'm in no way Conservative and don't see anything changing that, but if the backbenchers get their way and depose of Johnson while Covid is still causing problems they'll be working to ensure someone who completely changes the approach gets in - it wouldn't surprise me if the membership overall doesn't like the current strategy either.

One really does struggle now to find *anyone* with a good word to say about BJ. Even when one looks at this from a position of sympathy towards a difficult, unexpected and novel situation, it’s still hard to escape the conclusion that he has made a total shambles of it.

I could forgive many of the tactical errors, but the attitude and communications have been dire too. He just comes over as an odious fool, and that’s putting it politely.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Is anyone else feeling like they’ve nowhere to go politically?

I’ve been a card-carrying Labour member for my entire adult life, though we’ve had our ups and downs (the Corbyn years were spent in a perpetual state of cringe). I believe that now more than ever, with this mesmerically callous cabinet of mediocrities, we desperately need a caring, competent opposition to hold the government to account.

Despite this I just can’t square myself with the Left’s political response to Covid. There just seems to be a constant clamour for earlier, longer, harder lockdowns with no heed for people’s livelihoods or mental health; lobbying for a ban on online anti-vaccine content (stopping people saying things we don’t like); demanding a shift to a completely unrealistic ‘zero-Covid’ policy (only smallpox has ever been eradicated); and, in Wales, compounding the destruction of livelihoods for the ‘fire break’ by preventing the retail businesses that stayed open from selling anything arbitrarily deemed ‘non-essential’. Surely there are better songs to sing than this?

A proportion of the Left have decided that anyone with even a hint of scepticism about lockdowns or their carefully chosen scientific data is a hard-right Brexiter, a ‘Covidiot’ (yawn) or someone who doesn’t care about the death rate or the NHS.

Masks have become a religion and there is little tolerance for any expression of dislike regarding them. There’s even widespread support for requiring them going forward.

I don’t know where to go any more. the Lib Dems have been abnormally quiet lately after a leadership election in which the genuinely progressive candidate was rejected in favour of the Coalition veteran who described that period as having ‘many successes’. Having said that Layla Moran is a staunch ‘zero-Covid’ fan too. Caroline Lucas of the Green Party, who is usually a really impressive orator, just spent most of a recent episode of Radio 4’s Any Questions clamouring for heavier restrictions. I found myself agreeing with Richard Tice, which has been an alarming wake-up to how divorced I am from my natural political home.

I could never lend my support to the likes of the Tories or the Brexit Party Ltd, who exist to exploit people’s worst prejudices for political gain.

The only peep I’ve heard about mental health is Rosena Allin-Khan’s repeated requests for more mental health support for NHS staff. That’s great but what about the general population who are struggling with a lockdown-happy policy perpetuated by the comfortable, cloistered political classes.

I’m sorry if this is somewhat incoherent but I just feel like there’s nowhere to go. If you mention this kind of thing on Twitter you just get told to go and join Farage or called a Tory.

I agree too, I also haven't been enamoured with the Labour party's position on Brexit either. So homeless it is.

One thing that is never the answer is Farage the parasite. He doesn't have any policies and just looks for the edge; how anyone can consider him a real option is quite crazy. Even I'd vote for the Tories over that shell of a man.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

One really does struggle now to find *anyone* with a good word to say about BJ.

He is charismatic I will give him that. He is as ambitious as hell and wanted the job but does not want to do the job. What is needed is a figure head who has very strong people around him that are not frightened of saying no. He doesn't have that (well I think Sajid was like that). That is not good. Reagan was a master at it - pick and surround yourself with good strong people. Margaret was not bad at it either (give me 6 men good and true and I will see the job through)

 

[radamfi]

I'm not, but I've been a Lib Dems voter for a long time. The paradox is that many people might align to the Lib Dems but don't see them getting much presence but that's because few people vote for them. A Catch-22 situation and additionally the media like to portray it that way. That being said, I'm not sure any party has got a fantastic response or strategy to the plans, but the "left-leaning" parties do at least seem to want to put proper resources into Test / Track / Trace.

In most areas, it is pointless voting for them because of the voting system.

 

[duncanp]

I agree too, I also haven't been enamoured with the Labour party's position on Brexit either. So homeless it is.

One thing that is never the answer is Farage the parasite. He doesn't have any policies and just looks for the edge; how anyone can consider him a real option is quite crazy. Even I'd vote for the Tories over that shell of a man.

Although I usually vote Conservative, I would consider voting Labour if they would provide a credible opposition, and challenge the government over its' handling of the COVID-19 crisis. They should be asking the critical questions that I outlined in my previous post on this thread, and only voting for a lockdown or revised Tier system if these question are answered.

I would vote for Nigel Farage only as a protest vote and not because I believe in what he stands for. It says something about the woeful state of the mainstream parties in the UK when I am forced into this choice.

 

[bramling]

I agree too, I also haven't been enamoured with the Labour party's position on Brexit either. So homeless it is.

One thing that is never the answer is Farage the parasite. He doesn't have any policies and just looks for the edge; how anyone can consider him a real option is quite crazy. Even I'd vote for the Tories over that shell of a man.

He’s useful and effective as a means of getting the other parties, especially the Conservatives, to get their arse in gear.

That said, I think BJ is too far gone for even that.

He is charismatic I will give him that. He is as ambitious as hell and wanted the job but does not want to do the job. What is needed is a figure head who has very strong people around him that are not frightened of saying no. He doesn't have that (well I think Sajid was like that). That is not good. Reagan was a master at it - pick and surround yourself with good strong people. Margaret was not bad at it either (give me 6 men good and true and I will see the job through)

Yes part of the problem with BJ is that he has surrounded himself with some of the most ineffective ministers I can remember in my lifetime.

I’m not even convinced about the charisma, if he did have it I think it has melted away over this year as he has come to realise his legacy will now by Covid no matter what else he does. I very much think he would walk away tomorrow if he could so do preserving some element of reputation.

 

[Ostrich]

I've never had a political "home". I ought to be a fit with the Conservatives based solely on my background but I've only ever voted for them half-heartedly. The last politician I actively voted for on the grounds I believed he could make a difference was Tony Blair and look how that turned out! These days, I've given up, I simply don't vote. FPTP is the killer to be as I don't think my vote counts for anything anyway.

If there were an Apathy Party, I think I might consider giving them a whirl, though .....

 

[radamfi]

FPTP is the killer to be as I don't think my vote counts for anything anyway.

Precisely, but no one seems to care whether votes count or whether the system is fair. Yet many people in Britain have the cheek to criticise other countries for a lack of democracy.

 

[duncanp]

Take, for example, the statement today from Susan Hopkins, the chief medical officer to NHS Test & Trace (how's that going by the way? What's the latest success rate for reaching contacts?) that for "..every day of Christmas freedom will result in two days of extra restrictions..." The Prime Minister, or at least someone in government should be questioning this and asking where you get the figure of two days from. Why not three days, five days or half a day?

Someone must have been reading my earlier post, because Public Health England now say that five extra days of restrictions will be needed for every one day that we are allowed to socialise.

Where does this figure of 5 come from, and what's the betting it is up to 10 days by the end of next week when the government need to start making decisions?

In reality this is an attempt to scare the government in allowing as little socialising as possible over Christmas, with no evidence to back up the figure of 5 days whatsoever.

I would really like a politician to stand up and challenge these statements, but as there aren't any at the moment I will be voting for Mr Farage.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If there were an Apathy Party, I think I might consider giving them a whirl, though .....

now there’s a thought!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If there were an Apathy Party, I think I might consider giving them a whirl, though .....

Nah! Wouldn't be enough folk bothered to vote for that!

 

[Horizon22]

In most areas, it is pointless voting for them because of the voting system.

Well the voting system in the UK is worthy of a whole other thread! There would be no such thing as "wasted votes" and I think turnout would go up and apathy go down.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, due to the erosion of our rights, freedoms and lives causded by Covid restrictions, many millions are effectively politically homeless right now, as all major parties appear to support damaging lockdowns.

I'm not going to forget the fact that Labour are a very pro-lockdown party.

(I'm also quitting my Union over their disgraceful stance)

Yes and in all honesty, I think it's making me more right leaning than before. After disliking Corbyn and his running of the Labour Party, I was eager to support Starmer and I do think he has the makings of a good leader but I just can't with his COVID ideas....

Totally agree 100% as do MANY others

Except we have not become more right-leaning as such; the likes of Labour are showing themselves to be overly authoritarian, and we as a nation don't like that sort of thing (and rightly so)

This cropped up a few months ago:

There were certainly issues with the 'old' normal, but in pretty much every way it was better than this 'new' normal nonsense.

There are a number of people - seemingly mostly of the Left-ish persuasion [1] - who seem to think we should leverage this crisis to try to solve what they perceive to be the problems with the 'old' normal. But this isn't the way to do it, and they are going to be very disappointed when inequality, unemployment and poverty inevitably rise dramatically in the coming years.


[1] where, until recently, I would have (mostly) included myself. Now I feel very politically homeless :-/

Again totally agree and I know many many others do too, as many have told me as much.

 

[Richard Scott]

In most areas, it is pointless voting for them because of the voting system.

So if everyone stayed at home on polling day as they felt the same way bar one or two what would happen then? Back on thread I feel the same way, usually sure who I'd vote for, if there was an election tomorrow a spoiled ballot paper would be a serious contender.

 

[alex397]

While I’ve never voted for the Conservatives, I could still understand but not necessarily agree with some of their policies in the past, and also agree with some of their ideas too. Whereas now, I have a huge dislike for them, and their frankly vile actions in recent years in government. They are a party I am now totally against.

Labour are a mess, and I can’t understand some of their recent actions. I think there is more hope for the party with Starmer though. I still agree with a lot more of their policies too compared to the Tories - well, I’m a natural lefty. Some people when they are talking about the recent Tory failures recently say things like ‘just imagine how bad it would be with Labour’ - well, I can imagine they may well have screwed up as well, but how could they have done any worse than this current Tory government? I don’t particularly agree with the very pro-lockdown stuff Labour have been saying though, but I still think I’d prefer them in charge right now!

Lib Dems - what is the point?

Green Party - this is a party I would probably vote for more if they could actually get any power. I agree with most things they say - but don’t particularly agree with their Corona stance, and also views on HS2 which I’m in favour of (however it appears there may be many pro-HS2 Green members).

Brexit Party / whatever Farage comes up with next to gain popularity - well, I’ve never been anywhere near the far right, so there is no way I would ever even consider voting for people like this, not even as a protest. I also find it hilarious how Farage portrays himself as a ‘man of the people’ and anti-establishment, but the opposite is true. But people fall for populism.
I dread to think of what sort of things would happen with someone like Farage in charge - but I doubt that would happen.

It is clear, to me, that the voting system needs radical change, and doesn’t feel completely democratic to me.

 

[kristiang85]

I was thinking about this very recently; I do feel politically homeless right now.

I was a traditional Conservative voter, but the Brexit issue meant I couldn't vote for them in the last election. COVID has now ensured they will never get my vote again - having seen far too many friends be unemployed because of it, and one even dying due to not having their care prioritised, I surely cannot vote for them whilst any of those who have voted for the measures are still in the government.

As for Labour, they go against so many of my beliefs, especially since 2016. There is a toxic left element in the party that will not be removed now.

I guess I am a right libertarian, so ironically had New Labour been around still maybe I would vote for them. But indeed I have no idea who I'd vote for next - the Lib Dems are irrelevant now, so it seems there is space for a new party to arrive before 2024. I just hope to God it's not Farage and his cronies...