Is BritRail eligibility based on citizenship or residency?

[ForTheLoveOf]

One of my relatives is currently living in the UK but is a foreign (EU) citizen. She has asked me for ticketing advice for a few long journeys which she is planning to do soon. It turns out that, if she is eligible for it, a BritRail pass will be the cheapest option as she requires flexibility (so can't use Advances) but will likely travel at or around 'peak' times (so walk-ups will be very expensive). The most appropriate pass is cheaper than a walkup ticket for even just one of the journeys, even when splitting.

I'm not very 'au fait' as regards the BritRail pass since I've never used or ordered it before. She has friends and relatives who live in the EU (outside the UK) in case it's not possible to have the BritRail pass sent to a UK address.

The question is - is she eligible for a BritRail pass? Could she perhaps use an InterRail pass if not (it's more expensive but still cheaper than walk-ups). Will she have to prove non-UK residency (obviously not possible as she lives here), or will proof of non-UK citizenship (e.g. passport) suffice? For reference, I have asked her and her passport doesn't state which country she is resident in.

Thanks for any advice - I presume the answer is that she should technically only get it if she were non-UK resident, but that her foreign passport and accent will probably not see her challenged. If she is eligible, it'd be good to know which website is the cheapest and best to order from as I think there are several. Does anyone know of any particular pros or cons to the different websites/agencies; which one should I recommend?

 

[Smethwickian]

The Britrail.net website states in its FAQs: "BritRail Passes must be bought before you arrive in the UK and are only available to those who do not reside in the United Kingdom, unless sharing a BritRail Guest Pass. Train staff may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency."
The terms and conditions further state: "Purchase Restrictions: Pass holders must be non-UK residents. BritRail and its representatives may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency and reserve the right to confiscate the ticket or pass in such circumstances. The BritRail ticket is non-transferable and must only be used by the person or persons specified on the ticket."
The Britrail Guest Pass referred to seems to be available for a UK resident to accompany the main Britrail Pass holder (but not travel seperately at any time), though I am struggling to find any public info for this or any internal merchandising more up to date than 2014.

 

[Soyyo]

I have used one recently as a UK citizen who resides abroad, and did a lot of research before doing so. Eligibility is based on your country of residence not your citizenship.

If she is living in the UK she is not entitled to use a BritRail pass. They are not available in the UK and cannot be sent to a UK address.

They can be obtained from ACP Rail. The majority of them are paper tickets and they are couriered to your non-UK address, arriving within a few days. Before use, you must take the pass to a railway ticket office together with your passport. The ticket is then validated.

The Britrail.net website states in its FAQs: "BritRail Passes must be bought before you arrive in the UK and are only available to those who do not reside in the United Kingdom, unless sharing a BritRail Guest Pass. Train staff may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency."
The terms and conditions further state: "Purchase Restrictions: Pass holders must be non-UK residents. BritRail and its representatives may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency and reserve the right to confiscate the ticket or pass in such circumstances. The BritRail ticket is non-transferable and must only be used by the person or persons specified on the ticket."

I found that in practice I was not asked at all during 16 days of use for evidence that I lived abroad. I carried evidence throughout my travels just in case. I was (only once, at the barriers at Euston station) asked for evidence of my identity for which I used my UK passport. I don't know anything about BritRail guest passes so can't comment on that.

Your friend could try the All Lines Rail Rover (7 or 14 days) to see whether this produces a saving over the walk up fares.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I have used one recently as a UK citizen who resides abroad, and did a lot of research before doing so. Eligibility is based on your country of residence not your citizenship.

If she is living in the UK she is not entitled to use a BritRail pass. They are not available in the UK and cannot be sent to a UK address.

They can be obtained from ACP Rail. The majority of them are paper tickets and they are couriered to your non-UK address, arriving within a few days. Before use, you must take the pass to a railway ticket office together with your passport. The ticket is then validated.



I found that in practice I was not asked at all during 16 days of use for evidence that I lived abroad. I carried evidence throughout my travels just in case. I was (only once, at the barriers at Euston station) asked for evidence of my identity for which I used my UK passport. I don't know anything about BritRail guest passes so can't comment on that.

Your friend could try the All Lines Rail Rover (7 or 14 days) to see whether this produces a saving over the walk up fares.

Thanks - but what makes no sense here is why they ask for you to bring a passport when you get the ticket validated - surely it's merely proof of citizenship (which is, it seems, immaterial here), and not of residency?

If someone were in your position - UK passport holder but foreign resident - how would you prove foreign residency? Is there anywhere in the terms that suggests/requires what proof is necessary?

 

[Soyyo]

Thanks - but what makes no sense here is why they ask for you to bring a passport when you get the ticket validated - surely it's merely proof of citizenship (which is, it seems, immaterial here), and not of residency?

This is purely to prove your identity, the pass is not transferable and use of the pass is limited to the person it is issued to.

If someone were in your position - UK passport holder but foreign resident - how would you prove foreign residency? Is there anywhere in the terms that suggests/requires what proof is necessary?

I searched high and low and could not find a definition anywhere on the BritRail web site, terms and conditions or elsewhere. As it is not defined by BritRail it must be a matter of opinion, as of course many documents will be written in a language other than English which staff may not understand. I carried my Spanish "Tarjeta de Residencia" showing my address in Spain and the fact I had lived there more than 6 months, a letter from a Spanish hospital confirming an appointment, and a certificate from the local town hall showing my address.

As quoted above, "BritRail and its representatives may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency and reserve the right to confiscate the ticket or pass in such circumstances." I certainly would not recommend anyone who does not live abroad to try to use this pass, I think that this would almost certainly leave them open to prosecution.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This is purely to prove your identity, the pass is not transferable and use of the pass is limited to the person it is issued to.



I searched high and low and could not find a definition anywhere on the BritRail web site, terms and conditions or elsewhere. As it is not defined by BritRail it must be a matter of opinion, as of course many documents will be written in a language other than English which staff may not understand. I carried my Spanish "Tarjeta de Residencia" showing my address in Spain and the fact I had lived there more than 6 months, a letter from a Spanish hospital confirming an appointment, and a certificate from the local town hall showing my address.

As quoted above, "BritRail and its representatives may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency and reserve the right to confiscate the ticket or pass in such circumstances." I certainly would not recommend anyone who does not live abroad to try to use this pass, I think that this would almost certainly leave them open to prosecution.

Oh no, I am just wondering since there is a chance I may myself emigrate, and hence be eligible for the BritRail pass in some months' time. Obviously the BritRail pass is not something for my relative it seems. It would be useful if, like with the InterRail pass which is quite clear on this subject, ATOC/RDG would clarify what exactly needs to be carried when using the BritRail pass.

 

[158820]

I have used britrail twice, this year 4 day and last year 8 day l was never asked for passport or proof of residency. then again l never met a full revenue protection check. Most staff just give a very swift glance at the pass. I think they are brilliant value.

 

[manxqueenies]

I would love the opportunity to use a britrail pass. As a resident of the Isle of Man when I've contacted britrail they believe the island is part of the UK and I'm not eligible. However the Isle of Man is not part of the uk, or Europe come to that, is a self governed British dependent island and residents have Manx passports and Manx driving licences. I buy a ALR every year or two but would not be adverse to changing to britrail benefits!
Not sure if any experts here are able to advise the rationale?

 

[SwindonBert]

I would love the opportunity to use a britrail pass. As a resident of the Isle of Man when I've contacted britrail they believe the island is part of the UK and I'm not eligible. However the Isle of Man is not part of the uk, or Europe come to that, is a self governed British dependent island and residents have Manx passports and Manx driving licences. I buy a ALR every year or two but would not be adverse to changing to britrail benefits!
Not sure if any experts here are able to advise the rationale?

Looking at the Britrail map, the Isle of Man appears to be part of Scotland according to the colours. If you think that's bad, Londonderry is shown as being in the Republic of Ireland

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would love the opportunity to use a britrail pass. As a resident of the Isle of Man when I've contacted britrail they believe the island is part of the UK and I'm not eligible. However the Isle of Man is not part of the uk, or Europe come to that, is a self governed British dependent island and residents have Manx passports and Manx driving licences. I buy a ALR every year or two but would not be adverse to changing to britrail benefits!
Not sure if any experts here are able to advise the rationale?

The full name of the UK is 'the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Since I think that the Isle of Man is pretty indisputably not part of Great Britain or Northern Ireland, I would find it very hard to justify claiming that a Manx resident is UK resident.

The Isle of Man is of course a British crown dependency but if this is what BritRail/ATOC/RDG meant (i.e. anyone living in the British Isles or in a British dependency or overseas territory is not eligible) then they should have said this, rather than 'UK' residents.

Whomever at BritRail/ATOC/RDG gave you that duff information needs to take a few geography and political history lessons I think!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The full name of the UK is 'the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Since I think that the Isle of Man is pretty indisputably not part of Great Britain or Northern Ireland, I would find it very hard to justify claiming that a Manx resident is UK resident.

The Isle of Man is of course a British crown dependency but if this is what BritRail/ATOC/RDG meant (i.e. anyone living in the British Isles or in a British dependency or overseas territory is not eligible) then they should have said this, rather than 'UK' residents.

Whomever at BritRail/ATOC/RDG gave you that duff information needs to take a few geography and political history lessons I think!

- Now, here's quite an important thing to remember: the Britrail pass is a commercial product, aimed at making money for the railways. That means that it is available to people who - by buying it - will make money for the railways. The flipside of that is that it is not available by right. If the railway marketers don't feel like selling it to people from the Isle of Man, they don't have to.

With a few exceptions, its important that we remember this. While they might be government funded, the railways are commercial. That means that our relationship with them is governed primarily not by the law of the land (except - a couple of those exceptions I mentioned - where the law has specifically chosen to intervene in contracts between sellers and buyers or between transport undertakings and their passengers) but by commercial good sense. So it follows from this that if as customers we have a reason to have a dispute with the railway as our supplier, we should start by trying to resolve things commercially, rather than reaching straight for the law courts.

 

[etr221]

- Now, here's quite an important thing to remember: the Britrail pass is a commercial product, aimed at making money for the railways. That means that it is available to people who - by buying it - will make money for the railways. The flipside of that is that it is not available by right. If the railway marketers don't feel like selling it to people from the Isle of Man, they don't have to.

They may not have to: but in saying it's available to "non-UK residents" (people residing outside the UK) they have, as the Isle of Man is not part of the UK, said they will.

 

[Flying Snail]

I would love the opportunity to use a britrail pass. As a resident of the Isle of Man when I've contacted britrail they believe the island is part of the UK and I'm not eligible. However the Isle of Man is not part of the uk, or Europe come to that, is a self governed British dependent island and residents have Manx passports and Manx driving licences. I buy a ALR every year or two but would not be adverse to changing to britrail benefits!
Not sure if any experts here are able to advise the rationale?

You said you contacted them, had they refused a purchase? I find it is better in these circumstances to just go ahead if you believe you are correct, if they have a problem they will be quick enough to contact you or cancel the transaction. If you go asking you are far more likely to encounter an idiot that will just refuse through ignorance.

A better alternative than ALRs would be an interrail one-country (Britain) pass. I wouldn't bother questioning them, just order the thing to your IOM address and if they send it that is all the proof needed that you can use it.