Is 'Dales Rail' a normal Northern service for fares purposes?

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gray1404

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Are Northern Complimentary Tickets on Sunday Dales Rail services? I would argue they are as running these services is a franchise commitment and they appear in the passenger timetable as Northern services.
 
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LowLevel

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As far as I know the DalesRail trains are standard Northern services that accept the full range of National Rail tickets so I don't see why you would need to argue anything.
 

skyhigh

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As far as I know the DalesRail trains are standard Northern services that accept the full range of National Rail tickets so I don't see why you would need to argue anything.
Yep, no argument needed. They'll be accepted without question.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, they are. The only fares controversy they cause (and did even in BR days) is that all Manchester to Carlisle fares are routed Lancaster, which caused issues when the first northbound of the day on the WCML on Sunday was not until about 1530 and people tried to use it from Manchester on regular tickets.

I wonder if this routeing is a legacy of BR trying to kill the S&C?
 

Mcr Warrior

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...all Manchester to Carlisle fares are routed Lancaster...
That appears to still be the case for walk up tickets.

So does that allow travel between Lancaster and Carlisle via Barrow/Workington (Cumbrian coast) or via Long Preston (Settle & Carlisle) as well as along the WCML via Penrith?
 

Ianno87

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Yes, they are. The only fares controversy they cause (and did even in BR days) is that all Manchester to Carlisle fares are routed Lancaster, which caused issues when the first northbound of the day on the WCML on Sunday was not until about 1530 and people tried to use it from Manchester on regular tickets.

I wonder if this routeing is a legacy of BR trying to kill the S&C?

It's a bit weird as that makes what could be attractive fares from Manchester/Bolton onto Dalesrail service disproportionately expensive as "via Clitheroe" fares only seem to be available from the stations Dalesrail serves (Preston/Blackburn etc).

You can get around this by splitting, but most folk won't know this. Mind you, the northbound service is quite early on a Sunday so connections may not exist!
 

gray1404

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There are also dedicated Dales Rail fares from the stations the service calls at. These are available Sundays only and are Route: Northern Only.
 

scrapy

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That appears to still be the case for walk up tickets.

So does that allow travel between Lancaster and Carlisle via Barrow/Workington (Cumbrian coast) or via Long Preston (Settle & Carlisle) as well as along the WCML via Penrith?
Seems to be valid via Cumbrian coast but not via Settle and Carlisle.
 

JonathanH

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It's a bit weird as that makes what could be attractive fares from Manchester/Bolton onto Dalesrail service disproportionately expensive as "via Clitheroe" fares only seem to be available from the stations Dalesrail serves (Preston/Blackburn etc).
I did buy a Dalesrail ticket with Manchester as the origin point in 2019 but it appears to have been withdrawn. The ticket office person at Manchester Airport the preceeding evening had some difficulty finding it on the system.

I later had a quizzical look from the train guard when I used it to travel between Appleby and Carlisle later in the day (with no intention of returning south). I wasn't quite clear if the special fare was only available on the actual Dalesrail service itself.
 

Bletchleyite

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I did buy a Dalesrail ticket with Manchester as the origin point in 2019 but it appears to have been withdrawn. The ticket office person at Manchester Airport the preceeding evening had some difficulty finding it on the system.

I later had a quizzical look from the train guard when I used it to travel between Appleby and Carlisle later in the day (with no intention of returning south). I wasn't quite clear if the special fare was only available on the actual Dalesrail service itself.

In the 90s they were routed DALESRAIL so were so restricted (I think back then it was effectively a Lancashire County Council charter), but I think haven't been for a while.
 

gray1404

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I've been able to look up the 2021 fares on BR Fares. The ticket type appears to be Dales Rail or words to that effect. However the Route field is Northern Only. They can also only be issued for travel on the Sundays the Dales Rail operates.

These trains are a franchise commitment so are therefore not charter services.
 
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