Is hotel availability and high pricing affecting leisure and/or business rail travel?

[pinkmarie80]

I’m off to London in a couple of weeks (after restrictions on leisure stays are lifted) I’m staying in PI Leicester Square. I normally stay at the PI at Earl’s Court (I usually get outrageously cheap prices there, it’s a gorgeous building with excellent links and plenty around in terms of food etc) but I needed to be more central this time.

When I booked it was 500 pounds for three nights. I prepared to suck it up until I happened to check back a couple of weeks ago to see the price was now 200 for the same three nights. Needless to say I rebooked fairly swiftly! Since then the European Rugby Final at Twickenham has been announced which I thought might have nudged the prices slightly but when I just checked there wasn’t a huge difference. Some fans on the Facebook fan page for my team, who are in the final, have however reported that the prices the local TL’s are charging are absolutely eye watering.

I have stayed in some really quite nice Travelodges- I used to stay in one in York when I was doing a bit of work for VTEC and it was pretty much opposite their office. That was perfectly adequate and comfortable, as is the TL I stay in In Liverpool when I go there on occasion to visit friends. I used to work for PI though and given the choice I will stay with them every time.

 

[RJ]

A round figure of 0 for hotel rooms is most attractive, in terms of money anyway. In big cities there tends to be at least one of the major chains who facilitate this through their loyalty schemes - Hilton, Intercontinental Hotels Group, Marriott etc. Often breakfast is thrown in so a decent deal.

And for places not covered by them, rooms booked through www.Travala.com come at a net cost of 0 thanks to a promo where there were rebates on spend with them - and they have the other major brands and lots of independents so overall coverage is pretty good. Travala’s customer service has been really good when I’ve dealt with them too.

Rooms don’t have to be expensive

 

[Wolfie]

A round figure of 0 for hotel rooms is most attractive, in terms of money anyway. In big cities there tends to be at least one of the major chains who facilitate this through their loyalty schemes - Hilton, Intercontinental Hotels Group, Marriott etc. Often breakfast is thrown in so a decent deal.

And for places not covered by them, rooms booked through www.Travala.com come at a net cost of 0 thanks to a promo where there were rebates on spend with them - and they have the other major brands and lots of independents so overall coverage is pretty good. Travala’s customer service has been really good when I’ve dealt with them too.

Rooms don’t have to be expensive

I had a look at that website - ta for the tip - but some weird things going on (like places a 100+ miles away coming up first when sorting by distance).

 

[ChrisC]

I’m off to London in a couple of weeks (after restrictions on leisure stays are lifted) I’m staying in PI Leicester Square. I normally stay at the PI at Earl’s Court (I usually get outrageously cheap prices there, it’s a gorgeous building with excellent links and plenty around in terms of food etc) but I needed to be more central this time.

When I booked it was 500 pounds for three nights. I prepared to suck it up until I happened to check back a couple of weeks ago to see the price was now 200 for the same three nights. Needless to say I rebooked fairly swiftly! Since then the European Rugby Final at Twickenham has been announced which I thought might have nudged the prices slightly but when I just checked there wasn’t a huge difference. Some fans on the Facebook fan page for my team, who are in the final, have however reported that the prices the local TL’s are charging are absolutely eye watering.

I have stayed in some really quite nice Travelodges- I used to stay in one in York when I was doing a bit of work for VTEC and it was pretty much opposite their office. That was perfectly adequate and comfortable, as is the TL I stay in In Liverpool when I go there on occasion to visit friends. I used to work for PI though and given the choice I will stay with them every time.

Exactly the same has happened to me with Travelodge. Six weeks ago they had a sale where they were offering 15% off stays of up to 7 nights until the end of August. I booked 7 nights in a Super Room at the London Vauxhall Travelodge which was £490 with the discount so should have been around £570. I thought I’d got a good deal because at that time of year it’s usually around £800, which I would never pay for a Travelodge, even in London. I have recently cancelled and rebooked because it is now only £388 for the same 7 nights. It’s not the best of areas but the Super Rooms are quite nice and the staff are very welcoming. The main advantage is the travel links are fantastic being next to Vauxhall Station and bus station plus the Victoria Line. Rooms on the back are right next to the platforms of Vauxhall Station but it does have good double glazing and air conditioning so not noisy.

This is something I keep always keep an eye on with both Travelodge and Premier Inn. I usually book well in advance because you do normally get much cheaper prices by doing that. However, prices do sometimes fall considerably around 10 weeks before the date of the booking, before then going up to very high rates during the 6 weeks leading up to the stay. Often if booking really well in advance it does work out cheaper to book at a flexible rate because with the cheaper saver rate you are tied to the higher price even if it does fall by £200.

Incidentally, last time I stayed in that part of London I stayed at the Vauxhall Nine Elms Holiday Inn Express. I much preferred this hotel and it was in a nicer location with some good eating places nearby. They are currently charging £148 a night this summer. I will keep an eye on their prices to see if they suddenly drop drastically because I can’t see them selling many rooms at that price when the nearby Travelodge is only charging around £50.

 

[Wolfie]

Exactly the same has happened to me with Travelodge. Six weeks ago they had a sale where they were offering 15% off stays of up to 7 nights until the end of August. I booked 7 nights in a Super Room at the London Vauxhall Travelodge which was £490 with the discount so should have been around £570. I thought I’d got a good deal because at that time of year it’s usually around £800, which I would never pay for a Travelodge, even in London. I have recently cancelled and rebooked because it is now only £388 for the same 7 nights. It’s not the best of areas but the Super Rooms are quite nice and the staff are very welcoming. The main advantage is the travel links are fantastic being next to Vauxhall Station and bus station plus the Victoria Line. Rooms on the back are right next to the platforms of Vauxhall Station but it does have good double glazing and air conditioning so not noisy.

This is something I keep always keep an eye on with both Travelodge and Premier Inn. I usually book well in advance because you do normally get much cheaper prices by doing that. However, prices do sometimes fall considerably around 10 weeks before the date of the booking, before then going up to very high rates during the 6 weeks leading up to the stay. Often if booking really well in advance it does work out cheaper to book at a flexible rate because with the cheaper saver rate you are tied to the higher price even if it does fall by £200.

Incidentally, last time I stayed in that part of London I stayed at the Vauxhall Nine Elms Holiday Inn Express. I much preferred this hotel and it was in a nicer location with some good eating places nearby. They are currently charging £148 a night this summer. I will keep an eye on their prices to see if they suddenly drop drastically because I can’t see them selling many rooms at that price when the nearby Travelodge is only charging around £50.

The downside of Travelodge Vauxhall is that there is a homeless hostel in close proximity. The clients are not allowed to drink in there so they do so nearby in the street. I'm told that the local shops have a serious shoplifting problem with respect to booze.

 

[ChrisC]

The downside of Travelodge Vauxhall is that there is a homeless hostel in close proximity. The clients are not allowed to drink in there so they do so nearby in the street. I'm told that the local shops have a serious shoplifting problem with respect to booze.

I’m aware it’s there but I’ve stayed there a few times now and it’s never been an issue. I’ve not really noticed it.

I don’t normally do Travelodge's as I find them too basic for more than a one night stay and I don’t really like their breakfasts. I find the Waitrose very good on the ground floor for getting breakfast items. The Super Rooms at Vauxhall are more than adequate and comfortable for a longer stay in London especially if you can get them at a reasonable price.

It’s the transport links that I like as it enables me to visit a few friends around London in the evenings, and even if I don’t return until the early hours on the night bus, it’s straight off the bus into the front door with no dodgy streets to walk. Whatever I might normally think about Travelodge the staff here are fantastic, friendly and helpful and I’ve never had any problems with cleanliness.

 

[Wolfie]

I’m aware it’s there but I’ve stayed there a few times now and it’s never been an issue. I’ve not really noticed it.

I don’t normally do Travelodge's as I find them too basic for more than a one night stay and I don’t really like their breakfasts. I find the Waitrose very good on the ground floor for getting breakfast items. The Super Rooms at Vauxhall are more than adequate and comfortable for a longer stay in London especially if you can get them at a reasonable price.

It’s the transport links that I like as it enables me to visit a few friends around London in the evenings, and even if I don’t return until the early hours on the night bus, it’s straight off the bus into the front door with no dodgy streets to walk. Whatever I might normally think about Travelodge the staff here are fantastic, friendly and helpful and I’ve never had any problems with cleanliness.

I've never used that hotel (l live in Islington and work in Westminster) but would agree the rest of your post.

 

[nanstallon]

I've actually got some decent prices chez Premier Inn in Cornwall in late May.

Yes, Premier Inn don't seem go be gouging at all; and their cheapest rates (I got a room in Taunton for GBP 36 in July) do let you change the date.. They are good quality, and a sensible approach to pricing means that they tend to be my first choice

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, Premier Inn don't seem go be gouging at all; and their cheapest rates (I got a room in Taunton for GBP 36 in July) do let you change the date.. They are good quality, and a sensible approach to pricing means that they tend to be my first choice

Yes, the ability to change dates is a very important feature these days !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, Premier Inn don't seem go be gouging at all; and their cheapest rates (I got a room in Taunton for GBP 36 in July) do let you change the date.. They are good quality, and a sensible approach to pricing means that they tend to be my first choice

I don't know about yourself, but if you like flying sleasyJet you probably like staying in Premier Inns - it's basically exactly the same business model but with hotel rooms instead of seats on planes, i.e. a yield managed, low-to-mid-priced offering that is good value but not trying to catch you out (unlike the hotel company and airline which have the colour blue in common )

easyHotel is much more Ryanair in its practices, but this is probably not surprising - Stelios did favour the very-low-cost model, but he hasn't had much involvement in easyJet for years - what it is now has much more to do with Carolyn McCall than him.

 

[47271]

I've only started moving again with work again in the past week and my observation is that hotel rates are very reasonable but train fares aren't in any way reflecting supply and demand.

Last week I was charged probably 50% more than pre Covid for advances on Avanti to find myself in a carriage with a maximum of three other people or, on one occasion, to be the sole occupant of a Pendolino First Class coach. At least I could have a (my own carried onboard) drink on Tuesday evening, something that I won't be allowed to enjoy on LNER this week, assuming that the Azuma shows up at all.

They may well say that they're operating with massively reduced capacity but that reduction isn't as steep as in the number of people wishing to travel, and I suspect price now has something to do with that. For all sorts of reasons my car is looking like a very attractive option at the moment.

Time for the industry to start to wake up.

 

[camflyer]

I've got a week off work in July and can't be bothered with the hassle of going abroad so I've been looking at doing a mini tour of the UK by train. Hotel prices everywhere are reasonable but train fares a a joke. You'd think the rail operators would be wanting to encourage people to travel domestically. Then again, supply and demand economics have never applied to the railways.

 

[jon0844]

Leisure travel appears to be picking up at quite a pace, and we're still suffering bad weather and pubs/restaurants not yet open for indoor dining/drinking.

It's probably the peak services that have to be looked at regarding fares, although any discounts would need to be temporary in case they too see a big increase as people decide they've had enough of working from home and actually want to go back to an office to meet colleagues face to face, socialise etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

I've got a week off work in July and can't be bothered with the hassle of going abroad so I've been looking at doing a mini tour of the UK by train. Hotel prices everywhere are reasonable but train fares a a joke. You'd think the rail operators would be wanting to encourage people to travel domestically. Then again, supply and demand economics have never applied to the railways.

Many TOCs have not released advance tickets for July yet, so the price you see will be flexible anytime / offpeak fares. Give it a couple of weeks and advances will be available. If social distancing is eased on June 21st then more will be available too, possibly at lower prices.

 

[al78]

A small anecdote. I'm going to Scotland for a week and want to travel back to Horsham from Fort William on Saturday 5th June. I had it planned, bus to Glasgow, get something to eat, train to Horsham getting home late evening/night.

I have just found out there is engineering work between Glasgow and Carlisle which means a replacement bus service (there wasn't when I was organising this trip). This would mean I don't get to Horsham until near 1am Sunday. I have looked at breaking the journey overnight somewhere and to break at somewhere like Carlisle or Preston would end up costing (very rough estimate) over £200 for the journey, including the overnight stay. I then looked at flights from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness but the flight timings do not conveniently mesh with the buses and trains on my route.

I then considered coach travel and looked on Megabus. I can break the journey in Glasgow and get a coach from Glasgow to London Victoria then a train to Horsham. It is a long time on a coach, but the journey is from 10am to 9pm which means I can get home before 11pm. Cost £37.65. Add to that the £19.80 to get from Fort William to Glasgow, £49.49 for a Travelodge in Glasgow city centre, and £28.90 according to NRE to get from London to Horsham (unfortunately no advance tickets available), comes to about £136. Much as I enjoy travelling by train, once obstructions get thrown in my path and I still have to pay through the nose, rail isn't going to be my choice.

I thought point-to-point backpacking with a tent would be a cost effective way to explore the very remote mountainous areas of Scotland, but if I use public transport each end, the travel costs eat up much of the savings of not staying in a B&B. Next year I will consider going back to how I used to do it, stay in one location and do several full day hikes, then I can drive there and back which is quicker, cheaper and more convenient.

Leisure travel appears to be picking up at quite a pace, and we're still suffering bad weather and pubs/restaurants not yet open for indoor dining/drinking.

This is unfortunate, over the last year the UK's weather seems to have been trolling the population.

Lockdown restrictions implemented in late March 2020:

February 2020: wettest on record, flooding.
March 2020: rainfall around average.
April 2020: 10th driest and second sunniest on record.
May 2020: 9th driest on record.

Lockdown restrictions eased going into June:

June 2020: 17th wettest.
July 2020: 57th wettest.
August 2020: 34th wettest.
September 2020: a bit drier than average, 109th wettest.
October 2020: 5th wettest, more flooding.

Stats obtained from 162 years of data, Met Office HadUKP
(https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/.../Rainfall/ranked/UK.txt)

Spring 2021:
April 2021: Sunniest on record, just beating April 2020, lowest average minimum temperature since 1922 (-2.8C), frostiness more typical of December, January or February.
May 2021 so far: Continuation below average temperatures and unsettled, UK stuck on the cool side of the jet stream. Some parts of western UK are looking at their wettest May on record if the unsettled regime persists to the end of the month.

If there existed weather Gods deliberately trying to make life miserable for UK residents, they'd struggle to do a better job.

 

[Ianno87]

If there existed weather Gods deliberately trying to make life miserable for UK residents, they'd struggle to do a better job.

I personally count the generally good weather we've had in lockdowns to actually be a blessing and incentive to get out of the house.

 

[bramling]

I personally count the generally good weather we've had in lockdowns to actually be a blessing and incentive to get out of the house.

The overall picture hasn’t been great though. Everyone I talk to is thoroughly fed up that they have quite a list of things they would like to do, deferred thanks to winter followed by restrictions, which the current weather is frustrating.

It’s quite depressing to be honest. We went north last week to do some bits - the highlight bits to be fair weren’t affected by weather, but nonetheless it was a pretty miserable experience - crowned off being caught in a non-forecasted thunderstorm.

It does seem to be the case that the U.K. is seeing more in the way of “blocking” weather patterns, where the same diet of weather lasts for long periods of time. Being stalwarts for U.K. holidays we’ve certainly noticed this over the last few years. I know U.K. holidays have always been risky, however now it appears you can have a two-week U.K. holiday and not get even one decent day.

 

[camflyer]

A small anecdote. I'm going to Scotland for a week and want to travel back to Horsham from Fort William on Saturday 5th June. I had it planned, bus to Glasgow, get something to eat, train to Horsham getting home late evening/night.

I have just found out there is engineering work between Glasgow and Carlisle which means a replacement bus service (there wasn't when I was organising this trip). This would mean I don't get to Horsham until near 1am Sunday. I have looked at breaking the journey overnight somewhere and to break at somewhere like Carlisle or Preston would end up costing (very rough estimate) over £200 for the journey, including the overnight stay. I then looked at flights from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness but the flight timings do not conveniently mesh with the buses and trains on my route.

I've been looking at flights and when you get do various London airports to Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen for around £30 each way and with less chance of engineering disruption, is there any wonder that people fly rather than take the train.

 

[al78]

I personally count the generally good weather we've had in lockdowns to actually be a blessing and incentive to get out of the house.

I would say that queueing to get into Tesco is much better when it is 20C and sunny than when it is 8C and pouring down, and the incredibly sunny April and May last year did give me a mental health boost, but I couldn't help feeling it was somewhat wasted when I can't take a short break to Scotland/other hilly area of the UK and make the most of it (couldn't even travel to local hills with the STAY AT HOME thing). Last Spring was exceptional, and it could be a long time before we experience another warm season like that.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have just found out there is engineering work between Glasgow and Carlisle which means a replacement bus service (there wasn't when I was organising this trip). This would mean I don't get to Horsham until near 1am Sunday. I have looked at breaking the journey overnight somewhere and to break at somewhere like Carlisle or Preston would end up costing (very rough estimate) over £200 for the journey, including the overnight stay. I then looked at flights from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness but the flight timings do not conveniently mesh with the buses and trains on my route.

I then considered coach travel and looked on Megabus. I can break the journey in Glasgow and get a coach from Glasgow to London Victoria then a train to Horsham. It is a long time on a coach, but the journey is from 10am to 9pm which means I can get home before 11pm. Cost £37.65. Add to that the £19.80 to get from Fort William to Glasgow, £49.49 for a Travelodge in Glasgow city centre, and £28.90 according to NRE to get from London to Horsham (unfortunately no advance tickets available), comes to about £136. Much as I enjoy travelling by train, once obstructions get thrown in my path and I still have to pay through the nose, rail isn't going to be my choice.

Personally I would rather spend the extra cash than have 11HOURS on a coach, but each to their own.

 

[al78]

It does seem to be the case that the U.K. is seeing more in the way of “blocking” weather patterns, where the same diet of weather lasts for long periods of time. Being stalwarts for U.K. holidays we’ve certainly noticed this over the last few years. I know U.K. holidays have always been risky, however now it appears you can have a two-week U.K. holiday and not get even one decent day.

I have said this myself, and I think there is a distinct possibility that this is a manifestation of how global climate change is impacting our part of the world, maybe through Arctic amplification and a weakened jet stream more likely to form large slow moving meanders which get locked in place. The UK has been stuck under a trough in the jet stream through April and May which is why we've experienced below average temperatures. Last spring, we were stuck under a ridge and influenced by mild air masses, hence warm and sunny rather than cool and sunny.

"Evidence for a wavier jet stream in response to rapid Arctic warming", Jennifer Francis and Steven Vavrus, Environmental Research Letters

ShieldSquare Captcha

iopscience.iop.org

 

[philosopher]

The overall picture hasn’t been great though. Everyone I talk to is thoroughly fed up that they have quite a list of things they would like to do, deferred thanks to winter followed by restrictions, which the current weather is frustrating.

It’s quite depressing to be honest. We went north last week to do some bits - the highlight bits to be fair weren’t affected by weather, but nonetheless it was a pretty miserable experience - crowned off being caught in a non-forecasted thunderstorm.

It does seem to be the case that the U.K. is seeing more in the way of “blocking” weather patterns, where the same diet of weather lasts for long periods of time. Being stalwarts for U.K. holidays we’ve certainly noticed this over the last few years. I know U.K. holidays have always been risky, however now it appears you can have a two-week U.K. holiday and not get even one decent day.

One only hopes the current weather pattern shifts into something more pleasant soon. Given how many will be going on holiday in the UK this year, a soggy week in Devon may be enough to put them off holidaying again in the UK and so end up harming the domestic UK tourist industry in the long run.

For foreign tourists bad weather in the UK I suspect may not be so much of an issue. I doubt too many overseas tourists are going to visit the UK for the weather (unless they like dull drizzly weather).

 

[nanstallon]

A small anecdote. I'm going to Scotland for a week and want to travel back to Horsham from Fort William on Saturday 5th June. I had it planned, bus to Glasgow, get something to eat, train to Horsham getting home late evening/night.

I have just found out there is engineering work between Glasgow and Carlisle which means a replacement bus service (there wasn't when I was organising this trip). This would mean I don't get to Horsham until near 1am Sunday. I have looked at breaking the journey overnight somewhere and to break at somewhere like Carlisle or Preston would end up costing (very rough estimate) over £200 for the journey, including the overnight stay. I then looked at flights from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness but the flight timings do not conveniently mesh with the buses and trains on my route.

I then considered coach travel and looked on Megabus. I can break the journey in Glasgow and get a coach from Glasgow to London Victoria then a train to Horsham. It is a long time on a coach, but the journey is from 10am to 9pm which means I can get home before 11pm. Cost £37.65. Add to that the £19.80 to get from Fort William to Glasgow, £49.49 for a Travelodge in Glasgow city centre, and £28.90 according to NRE to get from London to Horsham (unfortunately no advance tickets available), comes to about £136. Much as I enjoy travelling by train, once obstructions get thrown in my path and I still have to pay through the nose, rail isn't going to be my choice.

I thought point-to-point backpacking with a tent would be a cost effective way to explore the very remote mountainous areas of Scotland, but if I use public transport each end, the travel costs eat up much of the savings of not staying in a B&B. Next year I will consider going back to how I used to do it, stay in one location and do several full day hikes, then I can drive there and back which is quicker, cheaper and more convenient.

This is unfortunate, over the last year the UK's weather seems to have been trolling the population.

Lockdown restrictions implemented in late March 2020:

February 2020: wettest on record, flooding.
March 2020: rainfall around average.
April 2020: 10th driest and second sunniest on record.
May 2020: 9th driest on record.

Lockdown restrictions eased going into June:

June 2020: 17th wettest.
July 2020: 57th wettest.
August 2020: 34th wettest.
September 2020: a bit drier than average, 109th wettest.
October 2020: 5th wettest, more flooding.

Stats obtained from 162 years of data, Met Office HadUKP
(https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/.../Rainfall/ranked/UK.txt)

Spring 2021:
April 2021: Sunniest on record, just beating April 2020, lowest average minimum temperature since 1922 (-2.8C), frostiness more typical of December, January or February.
May 2021 so far: Continuation below average temperatures and unsettled, UK stuck on the cool side of the jet stream. Some parts of western UK are looking at their wettest May on record if the unsettled regime persists to the end of the month.

If there existed weather Gods deliberately trying to make life miserable for UK residents, they'd struggle to do a better job.

When the railways have a blockade for engineering or other reasons, and can't be bothered to reroute the trains, say over the Glasgow & South Western route, or down the East Coast, but decant you onto a bus, they should not expect you to pay the full fare. It is this arrogant attitude of TOCs that makes me glad I have a driving licence! If I'm travelling by bus, I expect to pay a bus fare, not a train fare!

 

[InOban]

It's beginning to look that the weather pattern may shift after next week.

 

[Ianno87]

If I'm travelling by bus, I expect to pay a bus fare, not a train fare!

In most places, that means more expensive, not less.

 

[Watershed]

In most places, that means more expensive, not less.

Perhaps in some local areas with PTE subsidised fares. But definitely not from Glagsow to Carlisle for example.

 

[al78]

When the railways have a blockade for engineering or other reasons, and can't be bothered to reroute the trains, say over the Glasgow & South Western route, or down the East Coast, but decant you onto a bus, they should not expect you to pay the full fare. It is this arrogant attitude of TOCs that makes me glad I have a driving licence! If I'm travelling by bus, I expect to pay a bus fare, not a train fare!

Unfortunately there is major engineering work at Kings Cross as well, which means journeys on both main lines disrupted. A bit unlucky my travel date coincides with it.

 

[InOban]

I thought that it had been agreed that both routes would not be closed at the same time?

 

[Watershed]

I thought that it had been agreed that both routes would not be closed at the same time?

They aren't both shut, however Kings Cross has reduced capacity whilst each part of the station is closed in turn for upgrades. Therefore some services are not running through to Kings Cross currently.

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought that it had been agreed that both routes would not be closed at the same time?

You thought wrong.