Is it cheaper to put Greek train passengers in taxis?

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starrymarkb

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There were pictures a while ago showing a batch of nearly new Stader GTWs that had been smashed up...
 

2Dogbox

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Saw this on BBC this morning so had a look online about the Greek Railway. Was most surprised to see that they have shut down some of their regional railways completely and suspended the international rail as part of the government cuts.
 

WatcherZero

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Greek rails always lost money hand over fist from over manning. 60 cents a passenger km compared to 30 here which everyone always complains is too expensive.
 

newbie babs

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Yes I have traveled on Greek roads, you take your life in your hands, in fact in the back of a taxi I closed my eyes.

I had not ever traveled on the trains though.
 

Failed Unit

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I am sure that question applies in the UK, I know central trains seem to suggest shutting down Lincolnshires network and using taxis instead would save a lot of money.
 

exile

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Not sure where the 30c per passenger km comes from for the UK - that would suggest a total subsidy of 15 billion euros..... though it might come close to the total cost of running the network including investment. In the UK a typical taxi fare is about £1.50 per mile for a 15 mile journey or 1.20 euros per km. So, possibly cheaper to provide taxis if they're 5 seaters and all seats are filled.
 

exile

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It has to be noted that it would be cheaper to provide buses for the majority of journeys than to provide taxis, as long as the buses can be filled. As it happens the average occupancy for a bus in the UK is only around 10, with 20 or so for long distance services.
 

Oscar

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However, these options would not have the same potential for improvements in efficiently as reforming the railways. If significant savings can be made on running the railways, this problem can hopefully be eliminated. Moreover, a predominantly electric railway also has the potential to be very (previously: energy efficient) sustainable if at least a reasonable amount of the electricity comes from sustainable sources. This kind of development needs to be a priority.
 
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Yew

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Moreover, a predominantly electric railway also has the potential to be very energy efficient if at least a reasonable amount of the electricity comes from sustainable sources. This kind of development needs to be a priority.

The source of the electricity has no bearing on the efficiency of the railway infrastructure.
 

exile

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Rail certainly pays for itself on high speed inter city routes, commuter services and urban subway/metro services, where trying to provide the same speed and capacity on roads would be impossible. However that doesn't apply to routes with half a dozen trains a day carrying less than 50 people per train,which describes a large portion of the network.
 

yorksrob

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It depends. Are we going down the well travelled path of just looking at the financial returns of a route. Some (by no means all) don't pay for themselves in purely financial terms, however, they tend to offer benefits to the local community which aren't received in the fare box.

Theoretically, this sort of traffic could be catered for by long distance bus transport, however, in reality buses don't provide the speed, comfort and, crucially the same ability to keep connections with the rest of the network.

This is apart from the benefits of secondary routes as a feeder/distributor network for the Inter-City lines.

Seems to me the Greeks need to be getting more bums on seats. If they have to drop prices it may not lead to a financial improvement straight away, but the cost per passenger kilometer will get better and the indirect value of the railway to the wider economy will increase.
 

ainsworth74

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I read an article, but I don't understand how a taxi that could hold at most 5 people is more efficient and cost effective than a train carrying 500 people.

Because the train isn't going to always be carrying 500 people but your costs are always going to be the same. So if you have very high wage costs, as well as the normal infrastructure/maintenance/running costs even though you train is only carrying a dozen people it might well end up being cheaper to send those people to their destination with a couple of taxis.

The article makes the point that the Greek railways cost €0.60 per passenger kilometre, a taxi from Thessaloniki to Athens would cost €700 or about €1.20 euros per passenger kilometre. If you have four people going from Thessaloniki to Athens by taxi then the cost per passenger kilometre becomes €0.30 or half that of railways.

It's also worth noting that no one is actually saying that the railways should be shut down and replaced with taxis but instead that serious reform is needed (be that wage cuts or working to increase ridership) as the running costs are outrageously high.
 

Oscar

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The source of the electricity has no bearing on the efficiency of the railway infrastructure.
My mistake, I am not an engineer - I should have written "has the potential to be very sustainable" rather than "energy efficient" as the source of the electricity affects sustainability (as well as cost and pollution) rather than energy efficiency.
 

Clip

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Cab driver I used when in Athens the other month couldnt even find my hotel which was a bit useless of him.
 

Nym

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My mistake, I am not an engineer - I should have written "has the potential to be very sustainable" rather than "energy efficient" as the source of the electricity affects sustainability (as well as cost and pollution) rather than energy efficiency.

Can I come in now and start harping on about the definition of sustainability?

Because one can argue that the Greek railway system simply isn't sustainable and should just be scrapped...
 

WelshZ

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Can I come in now and start harping on about the definition of sustainability?

Because one can argue that the Greek railway system simply isn't sustainable and should just be scrapped...

Going by the same argument lines such as the heart of wales and far north lines should be scrapped as they lose money hand over fist.;)
On a more serious point nearly all the railways across the word lose money hand over fist on regional operations. "profit" is usually made by the Inter-city and freight arm of a rail company not the regional operations. in regard to the greek railways they are over-staffed to a hilarously extent even when compared with other parts of the greek public sector. the matter is moot anyway as in all likelyhood they are going to crash and burn in the next few months.
 

jon0844

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Isn't it about now someone should suggest putting Greek train passengers into driverless taxis?

[Ducks: that's the end of this thread!]
 

gordonthemoron

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of course the passengers are alsmot surely going to be overcharged by the greek/turkish/romanian ad infinintum taxi drivers. When exactly did these bunch of no hopers have a website telling you where they go and how much it will cost?
 

HowMuch?

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Perhaps there are less than 50 people per train BECAUSE the service is so infrequent...
 
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