Is learning to drive an HGV harder than learning to drive a train ?

[notadriver]

I’ve been enquiring about getting my heavy goods vehicle license and I already have extensive experience both driving passenger service vehicles (buses and coaches ) and trains. I’ve been told learning to drive an HGV is on a different level and I would struggle to retain information.

How hard is it ?

 

[ComUtoR]

Driving a train is easy.

... and trains. I’ve been told learning to drive an HGV is on a different level and I would struggle to retain information.

If you can already drive a train you are already rules competent. As you would know, its a huge task and the level of information you are expected to retain is quite extensive. What information do you need to retain for HGVs ?

 

[generalvegitable]

HGV Class 2 (rigid) Driver here. Having worked with a few ex Bus drivers, they've all said that the skill set is very similar. There are some differences in the rules, but driving a large vehicle is driving a large vehicle. I can't speak for Class 1 (articulated) or train driving though, I haven't done either.

The only thing to watch out for is that there are a lot more unscrupulous companies/people in freight transport than passenger transport. You have to look after yourself first, your load second, and your schedule last.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I couldn't imagine in all honesty that training to drive a HGV comes anywhere close in comparison to train driving tbh. As a former Royal Mail driver my Class 1 HGV course 26 years ago consisted of just 2 weeks training including the actual test day, I was lucky and managed to pass first time but at the end of the day the one year plus training required to drive the most basic type of train surely says it all really?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ve been enquiring about getting my heavy goods vehicle license and I already have extensive experience both driving passenger service vehicles (buses and coaches ) and trains. I’ve been told learning to drive an HGV is on a different level and I would struggle to retain information.

How hard is it ?

I think I'd say "different".

I don't work in either industry, but I have driven a Class 101 set at Wirksworth. The brake was the hardest thing to get the hang of, but after a day of playing I wasn't terrible at it. Modern units are much easier to drive than that - no gear change, for example.

But, and it's a very big but, it's all the rules, procedures, learning the road etc that are the really difficult bit, not making the thing go.

So it's a rather different game to learning to drive an HGV, where the hard bit is how not to whack it on things, and CPC with all the theory is a bit of an afterthought.

Edit: if you've driven a PCV and train you probably know all that, sorry, teach me to read your posting properly! However, I can't see why an HGV would be much harder than a bus.

 

[Domh245]

the one year plus training required to drive the most basic type of train surely says it all really?

A lot of that year's training is rulebook and route knowledge isn't it? For HGV driving, most of the rulebook is already known from the regular driving license test, and there's no equivalent to route learning?

 

[Ash Bridge]

A lot of that year's training is rulebook and route knowledge isn't it? For HGV driving, most of the rulebook is already known from the regular driving license test, and there's no equivalent to route learning?

Yes fair point regarding regular driving licence/highway code etc. However regarding train driver training, wouldn't route learning be one of the final things to take place after the first year or so of classroom & practical handling etc. had taken place?

 

[baz962]

You have to remember with train handling , that it's metal wheels on metal rails and can be very slippery . They also don't stop on a sixpence and you can't drive on sight generally. Getting bang on a stopboard can be quite fun on a poor weather day , or you get it a bit wrong .

 

[matacaster]

HGV drivers have to remember to ensure their lorry fits under rail bridges ..... well sometimes anyway!

 

[Lucan]

A lot of that year's training is rulebook and route knowledge isn't it? For HGV driving, most of the rulebook is already known from the regular driving license test

It didn't take me a year to learn the Highway Code or to learn to drive a car. I don't know how much route knowledge there is to learn for train driving; I have driven trains for engineering tests but there has been a route-qualified driver with me in the cab. It did not strike me that it should take that long to learn where the signals, lineside phones, and speed limits are. Am I missing something?

 

[baz962]

It didn't take me a year to learn the Highway Code or to learn to drive a car. I don't know how much route knowledge there is to learn for train driving; I have driven trains for engineering tests but there has been a route-qualified driver with me in the cab. It did not strike me that it should take that long to learn where the signals, lineside phones, and speed limits are. Am I missing something?

At my toc anyway , I have to know where every signal is on every route I drive , does the signal have a route indicator or theatre box on it. Have to know if an area is low adhesion ( slippery ) . Every speed change and where , in case a speed board is missing or as often happens , graffiti artists have sprayed over them. Have to know if a platform has a rising or falling gradient. Need to know what every sign means . Need to know where my neutral sections are , change of signal boxes , change of electrical control office. Need to know where the level crossings are . Need to know line directions . Need to know where I switch from AC to DC. Need to know shunts and turnbacks . As you can't drive on sight I need to know my braking points. And it isn't just route knowledge . You need to know about the traction unit's , the specific methods of communication . You need to know what is an emergency and how to stop a train or to lay emergency protection . If your train has a fault and you have isolated a safety system you need to know the restrictions , can the train remain in service and if so what restrictions are there. You need to know about single line working and bi directional working . My son in law did one of them one week intensive courses and got his hgv . One week on the railway cover's PTS or personal track safety . You then learn rules , you learn traction and then you might , depending on toc specifics , actually drive a train . The rssb minimum I believe is 225 hour's.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Well my head is hurting after reading your posting @baz962, all respect to you guys at the sharp end!

Regarding your son in laws HGV course, the one I took over 25 years was similar but spread over 2 weeks this did not include the weekend days though did include the examination/test date so 9 actual training days.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I’ve never driven a HGV before or a bus but I think I would find it harder than operating a train certainly modern multiple units which are very easy to operate. I‘m talking about the handling by the way not retaining information.

 

[baz962]

Well my head is hurting after reading your posting @baz962, all respect to you guys at the sharp end!

Regarding your son in laws HGV course, the one I took over 25 years was similar but spread over 2 weeks this did not include the weekend days though did include the examination/test date so 9 actual training days.

It's a lot , but obviously doable. But it's not one upmanship and I for one respect all people in their jobs and careers , some of which I couldn't do or would struggle with. I also had a thought just after I posted above . As a train driver I would be able to go to another toc and being qualified would not really need to do rules . However I would be quite useless to them , until I had learnt their specific route's and traction . That's really quite a thing to admit , unlike a truck driver that could work for an agency and drive for several different companies a week.

 

[Ash Bridge]

It's a lot , but obviously doable. But it's not one upmanship and I for one respect all people in their jobs and careers , some of which I couldn't do or would struggle with. I also had a thought just after I posted above . As a train driver I would be able to go to another toc and being qualified would not really need to do rules . However I would be quite useless to them , until I had learnt their specific route's and traction . That's really quite a thing to admit , unlike a truck driver that could work for an agency and drive for several different companies a week.

Yes indeed, the nearest situation to this I could imagine regarding hgv driving is if a driver should wish to perform specialised driving work involving the conveyance of highly inflammable or toxic cargoes etc. which undoubtedly requires additional training above what is normally required.

 

[notadriver]

It didn't take me a year to learn the Highway Code or to learn to drive a car. I don't know how much route knowledge there is to learn for train driving; I have driven trains for engineering tests but there has been a route-qualified driver with me in the cab. It did not strike me that it should take that long to learn where the signals, lineside phones, and speed limits are. Am I missing something?

If you’ve driven trains aren’t you then a qualified driver ?

 

[Ploughman]

I took my HGV 3 after 1 day on the Playground(Car park practice area) and 1 day on the road.
This was in the Army but Test Standards were the same, only difference was not having to wait for a test date.
The instructor says if you are ready then you went in for the test.

 

[Lucan]

If you’ve driven trains aren’t you then a qualified driver ?

Qualified, but not for particular routes or passenger service. I was a test engineer. The engineering department had a crew allocated to it who had the route knowledge.

 

[387star]

The physical act of driving a train is very easy, so easy low workload is talked about as a possible reason for serious mistakes
That's the problem doing it day in day out staying clean and absorbing all the rules although the rules are pretty straight forward once you've finished training. Route knowledge is a steep learning curve but then it sticks. So train driving becomes very easy like most jobs but without much variation which makes it seem even easier. Clearly a lot is at stake and things can go wrong quickly so it is wrong to be complacent.

HGV driving has a lot more skill wity the driving but I imagine much less with the route and like train driving there must be times it's easy to switch off. However driving round big bends etc looks beyond me! I imagine a greater understanding of maths and physics is required

 

[Wuffle]

I got my LGV licence in 2005, this meant passing a Theory Test, Hazard Test, Rigid test and finally Artic test. There is a further weight limited test for heavier toys as well as Hazardous loads. I believe a CPC test is also required now.
Driving buses and coaches must be "fun" as well given the "load"
I would imagine that driving a train would involve a not dissimilar skill set requiring observation and decision making.
Good luck to anyone who wants to do any of them

 

[al78]

It occurs to me that one big difference between driving a HGV and a train is that trains are not driven on public rights of way, so train drivers don't have to worry about things like cyclists filtering up the inside when stationary (unfortunately local authorities encourage this by painting cycle lanes next to the kerb at junctions). I'd imagine driving a HGV is hard just from dealing with the blind spots and always having to look and see if anything has come up your inside before you turn left.

 

[Vespa]

I drive a class 3 professionally for a national company and have driven trains in Ireland twice, vintage trams in a museum for 10 years, vintage trolleybus, driving a train/tram is easy its the stopping you had to watch for.

Driving a van is easy enough, its the hours you have to watch, your breaks, daily rests and minding your heights under bridges, similar to a class 1, don't let anyone pressure you to work over your hours and through your breaks, its you that thats fined not the company., driving a class 1 or 3 is not a lot different just a bit bigger and more money of course.

I enjoy driving and driving a van on the road is never boring each day is different, new challenges, new scenery and you're your own boss.

 

[baz962]

As someone that's driven both , yes it's not hard to make a train go or stop . The hard part can be making it stop right where you need it to , especially in slippy season , metal wheels on metal rails and all. But the title of the thread is asking which is harder to learn . You can learn to drive a hgv in a week , you absolutely couldn't learn to drive a train in a week. If you were to drive a train for a week , then get let loose , lord help the passengers.

 

[100ttank]

I’ve been enquiring about getting my heavy goods vehicle license and I already have extensive experience both driving passenger service vehicles (buses and coaches ) and trains. I’ve been told learning to drive an HGV is on a different level and I would struggle to retain information.

How hard is it ?

Class 1 training is so easy compared to train driver course

 

[Wuffle]

I suggest because every lorry driver has driven cars for a period a percentage of the skill set is already there as well
As al78 says the problems on the roads are the other users dodging about

 

[bearhugger]

I think the hardest skill to learn in driving HGV Class 1 artics would be reversing. Having to turn the steering wheel the opposite way to the way you want to go at the start of the maneouvre must seem so very counter-intuitive at first.

 

[Wuffle]

I think the hardest skill to learn in driving HGV Class 1 artics would be reversing. Having to turn the steering wheel the opposite way to the way you want to go at the start of the maneouvre must seem so very counter-intuitive at first.

That's the fun bit I must admit it took a bit of getting used to

 

[darloscott]

Been driving buses & coaches for 9 years and it's the easiest job in the world. Would imagine HGV is completely different, but train driving as said above takes over a year to become productive...

 

[johnmoly]

Don't forget if your driving an HGV you might have to load and unload the cargo as well. I started driving HGV's when I was 22 years old and drove them all over the UK and Ireland for the next 12 years until I had an incident which took me off the road. These days I wouldn't drive one for work, its too demanding and dangerous.

 

[Andyorr]

Hello, been registered on this forum for a while, I usually just browse topics but thought I’d toss my penny’s worth in...

I’ve been driving LGV’s (Large Goods Vehicles, the current definition of lorries, but HGV;Heavy Goods Vehicle is also valid) for over 20 years, passed my Category C (HGV 2) test first time, but took 4 attempts to pass Category C+E (HGV 1), the 4th attempt falling just after theory tests were introduced. From my point of view, speed awareness and hazard perception are crucial, most Modern vehicles are super-user friendly, gone are the days of using a clutch & splitter gearboxes with range change and no synchromesh, my Scania has a dinky little paddle on the steering column stalk. Choose drive, Rev away! As with any new vocation, it takes some acclimatisation, manoeuvring and reversing come with practice, but even after 20 years, I still stop, get out, have a look around. But by far the biggest hazard driving a vehicle up to 44tonnes is other BLOODY ROAD USERS!! There are so many impatient, selfish, self-centred fools we have to share the roads with who have no grasp that a wagon can’t stop on a sixpence like a car can. Driving during lockdown is heavenly, it’s like a perpetual Sunday morning!

And as for harder to drive than a train? No, not even close. The concentration required to drive a lorry isn’t constant, you can relax on motorways & quieter roads, there is definitely less scrutiny than driving a train (not that I’ve driven a train, but talked to people that have)