Is the class 91 fleet going through a bad patch ?

[Edders23]

over the last couple of weeks every time I am dropping off or picking up at Peterborough i seem to see class 91 sets either being hauled by other locos (67 and 91 and I think a 90 but wasn't close enough to identify it) or sat in the centre road being undertaken by trains using platform 1 as a through road. You always used to see the occasional one BUT it seems to be happening a lot of late but not the HST's . Is the fleet suffering a spate of failures or is it just I'm lucky/unlucky to be in the right place at the right time ?

 

[AlexNL]

As far as I know, LNER are in a tight spot when it comes to fleet availability. The fleet is being worked hard: the amount of services has been increased, but there have been no additions to the fleet (that's what the Azuma's are for).

Earlier this year the "Beast from the east" wrecked some 91's, for which the 90's are covering.

 

[dk1]

You'll probably find that they have been going through an on/off bad patch throughout their life. It's nothing new really.

 

[GrimShady]

I've never been lucky enough to have a 90 MkV haul, they tend to restrict them to Newcastle/Leeds due to the lower speed of the 90.

 

[yorkie]

I've never been lucky enough to have a 90 MkV haul, they tend to restrict them to Newcastle/Leeds due to the lower speed of the 90.

I've never known it be anything other than Leeds.

 

[GrimShady]

I've never known it be anything other than Leeds.

I seen two DB 90s on MkV sets last year in Newcastle. Never made note of the numbers though.

I also seen a double 91 MkV last year at Newcastle!

 

[DanNCL]

The 90s don't have any booked work to Newcastle, however the 12:22 Kings Cross - Newcastle and 16:04 return on a Sunday is usually one of the first services to be allocated a 90 when there aren't enough 91s available. Other than this 90s don't work anything other than Leeds and Newark turns for LNER

 

[GrimShady]

The 90s don't have any booked work to Newcastle, however the 12:22 Kings Cross - Newcastle and 16:04 return on a Sunday is usually one of the first services to be allocated a 90 when there aren't enough 91s available. Other than this 90s don't work anything other than Leeds and Newark turns for LNER

It must have been one of these services that I seen.

100% it was DB red 90s in Newcastle.

 

[DarloRich]

I've never known it be anything other than Leeds.

The 90 has done a couple of yorks and the odd Newcastle on a sunday.

It is mainly on Newark/Leeds duties

 

[cjmillsnun]

I seen two DB 90s on MkV sets last year in Newcastle. Never made note of the numbers though.

I also seen a double 91 MkV last year at Newcastle!

Mark V? V is the roman numeral for 5. They aren't in service yet. I assume you mean Mark 4 (IV).

 

[GrimShady]

Mark V? V is the roman numeral for 5. They aren't in service yet. I assume you mean Mark 4 (IV).

Yes that's correct. I shoud proof read before posting, my auto correct routinely gets it wrong!

 

[43094]

The regular diagrams include only Newark or Leeds services.

Occasionally they will work a York or Newcastle service instead.

Best potential bet for a 90 to Newcastle is 1222 ex Kings Cross / 1604 return on a Sunday - this is only if the other couple of diagrams it can work on a Sunday aren't available for some reason though.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Suppose it depends on driver or train manager traction knowledge. That particular diagram might be London crewed throughout for example whereas the other diagrams may involve Newcastle drivers who might not sign the class 90's.

 

[Rail Blues]

I can't remember a time when they were ever paragons of reliability.

 

[DarloRich]

I can't remember a time when they were ever paragons of reliability.

and yet as a fairly regular ECML user over their entire lifetime I have had very few problems with them. I realise that isnt quite the narrative the unitists of this board like to portray but is reflective of my experience.

 

[Failed Unit]

and yet as a fairly regular ECML user over their entire lifetime I have had very few problems with them. I realise that isnt quite the narrative the unitists of this board like to portray but is reflective of my experience.

I suspect it is a cycle thing. They had a lot of money invested in them at the tail end of the GNER period. They were the most reliable IC unit in the UK after that period. I think now we are getting to that period it needs doing again but as they don’t have a definite job to do after they leave i suspect investors are reluctant to fund reliability mods.

I like you have had very few problems with them. The MK4 coaches frequently offer a “warm welcome”. My only problem is when they do fail it takes ages to rescue them but that is one of the reasons we are doing the IEP in the way we are. Would add most of my failures are not outright 91s dying. Overhead line damage (for whatever reason) is my biggest cause of needing rescue.

 

[DarloRich]

My only problem is when they do fail it takes ages to rescue them but that is one of the reasons we are doing the IEP in the way we are. Would add most of my failures are not outright 91s dying. Overhead line damage (for whatever reason) is my biggest cause of needing rescue.

Agreed - However I am cynical about the ability of the new units to "self rescue". Hard with 1/2 mile of OHLE cables wrapped round the train!

 

[Failed Unit]

Agreed - However I am cynical about the ability of the new units to "self rescue". Hard with 1/2 mile of OHLE cables wrapped round the train!

Yep. I am also cynical if the wires come down at Retford will they be able to divert quickly via Lincoln. (As an example) Again my experience when sat on a HST at Doncaster it assumes the crew have route knowledge. Many times they don’t so we wait.

 

[DarloRich]

Yep. I am also cynical if the wires come down at Retford will they be able to divert quickly via Lincoln. (As an example) Again my experience when sat on a HST at Doncaster it assumes the crew have route knowledge. Many times they don’t so we wait.

and fuel. It wont take long for a new unit to go out empty of diesel because it is limited to a 100% electric day! But then I have been on an HST held because the driver was worried that he had insufficient fuel for the diversion route.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

and yet as a fairly regular ECML user over their entire lifetime I have had very few problems with them. I realise that isnt quite the narrative the unitists of this board like to portray but is reflective of my experience.

I'm not a regular user by any means, but the only time I've had an issue on a Mk4 set was down to a fault on the DVT... cue a crawl to Peterborough for the 91 to run round and pull us to the Cross blunt end first!

 

[DanNCL]

Another 91 failure today - 91112 sat down at Northallerton whilst working 1E08 09:00 Edinburgh - Kings Cross. As much as I like the 91s, they do appear to be having reliability issues at the minute.

 

[GrimShady]

I must be lucky as in all my years of traveling the ECML I've never had a 225 set breakdown on me.

I will miss them awfully when they go.

TRAXX and MkIV is how it should have went down!

 

[Class455]

Hopefully I won't be having a Class 90 at the rear of my train when I travel from Leeds to London on Friday

 

[Bucephalus]

For each failed train (or unit) there is an excuse to get a class 37 out. Every cloud

 

[DJH1971]

There was talk not too long back about some of them working for an operator between Blackpool and London Euston.

Gone a bit quiet there.

 

[xotGD]

Hopefully I won't be having a Class 90 at the rear of my train when I travel from Leeds to London on Friday

I always hope that I will have a Class 90 on the rear. I catch the 09:16 whenever I get the chance. Can I ask why you don't want one?

 

[Railperf]

90's are okay...a bit light footed - especially in the wet. I don't mind the fact that they don't do 125mph..as it means they get driven flat out..provided the rails are dry.

 

[Aictos]

I must be lucky as in all my years of traveling the ECML I've never had a 225 set breakdown on me.

I will miss them awfully when they go.

TRAXX and MkIV is how it should have went down!

You're lucky as the one breakdown I DO remember was when the 91 on the first northbound ex London service broke down just before bridges at Huntingdon and the Thunderbird coming from Kings Cross was signalled behind a stopper coming to rescue us hence a 30 minute journey from Stevenage to Peterborough resulted in a 4 hour journey!

 

[Railperf]

91's seem to go through patches of unreliability - followed by a period of time trying to identify and rectify faults. I would imagine a lot of the electrical control systems and traction electronics are past their sell by date now.
Obviously compared to HST's if something goes wrong it needs rescuing..while HST's can often soldier on on a single power car.
I remember the days when HST power cars were used as surrogate DVT's. 8000hp on tap...they were very quick...but painfully slow propelled or hauled by the sole HST power car.

 

[zn1]

Perhaps Eversholt should start investigating possible re-traction of the fleet, upgrading motors to AC, with the associated modern power control and systems..One loco as a test bed..the 91's are a decent squadron of locos, plenty of scope for open access operations over east coast, west coast and now Great western, even re-instate even the HST power car hybrids, the market is there, just needs a brave operator with wads of cash to take the plunge