Is there some sort of ID card for train drivers?

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by razourlight962, 28 Apr 2015.

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  1. razourlight962

    razourlight962 Member

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    As the title suggests, I'm wondering whether there is an id card for train drivers, and if so, please post a picture of one, as I'm wondering what they look like, thanks!
    -Jordan



    Sorry if this is in the wrong thread
    EDIT: Nevermind, found it, thanks to AngusH
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  2. ADRboy

    ADRboy Member

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    There's a Railway ID you get from your TOC, not sure if drivers have another though. Don't think anyone should post a copy either way though.

    Network Rail have the Sentinel card for track staff, sure that's a Smart card.
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  3. VT_Valenta

    VT_Valenta Member

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    This has the potential to be a massive security issue, and I doubt anyone will respond to your request. I certainly wouldn't post a copy of my ID card on the web!
     
  4. GB

    GB Established Member

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    The design and layout probably differs on a company to company basis but all safety critical staff have I.D cards.

    Don't think anyone will be stupid enough to post a picture of theirs!
     
  5. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There are already pictures of the EU Train Driving License on the internet, which I understand is already being issued to new drivers, and will be issued to existing drivers over the coming years. There is an exemption for Metro & Light rail systems that do not have to comply (fortunately).
     
  6. Minilad

    Minilad Established Member

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    Yes I have a driving license. No I won't be posting a picture of it
     
  7. AngusH

    AngusH Member

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    There is a visual sample of the new european license format posted by the ORR.

    I believe that since this is a publicly posted document by the official regulator on their public website it is within the public domain and acceptable to post a link. If this is not the case, please advise and/or remove this link.

    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf...riving-licences-regulations-2010-guidance.pdf

    See Page 35 - Annex B1: Train driving licence

    It appears to use a number of physical and other security measures much like the modern road driving license and may also include a chip in some cases.

    The list of anti-forgery methods is extensive and is apparently designed to be instantly verifiable without special equipment. :)

    edited: removed "instantly"
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  8. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Yes, I have a European Train Driving Licence. Used to get a SCWID (Safety Critical Work Identification) card but that was changed to a driving licence which was recently replaced by the current.
     
  9. Ediswan

    Ediswan Member

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    What the document says is "...enable the competent authorities to check the validity of the card without any special equipment.", they can take their time.

    As a general point "security through obscurity" is a weak approach. It makes more sense to assume the bad guys will have a genuine example of any document and design the rest of the system accordingly. Hence the anti-forgery measures.
     
  10. AngusH

    AngusH Member

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    Yes, I was perhaps over-stating it by using the word instant and have marked the original post accordingly. :)

    I agree on the security by obscurity issue.

    Obtaining a genuine card then either modifying the photo or using some type of copying process is a very old technique, so very important to prevent this even if the criminal/fraudster/spy has a genuine original card.

    Although the requirement for other paperwork and the nature of job & training hopefully means there shouldn't be any major issues here (?)
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  11. nottsnurse

    nottsnurse Member

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    Hi,

    I'm an Internet user with a small number of posts on this specialist website, would anyone mind posting a photo of anything they have which, if made public, could potentially cause a security issue?

    :rolleyes:
     
  12. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    The staff above have already answered your question!! Was it for real?
     
  13. Rich McLean

    Rich McLean Established Member

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    All FGW drivers now have these Driver Licences, as well as TOC Specific passes.

    And I won't post them, for reasons stated above
     
  14. notadriver

    notadriver Established Member

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    Does a paying passenger have a right to demand to see the ID of a railway employee ?
     
  15. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Not on your Nelly.
     
  16. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    Yes.

    Whether there is a requirement for a railway employee to agree or act upon your demand is a different matter.
     
  17. dysonsphere

    dysonsphere Member

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    No but have a right to know there name if there is a dispute, anyone not displaying a name badge I think is breaking rules. As for posting an ID is the original poster mad.
     
  18. razourlight962

    razourlight962 Member

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    Ah, sorry, had meant with anything personal (name, location etc.) covered - just wondered what it would generally look like, that's all
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  19. nottsnurse

    nottsnurse Member

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    No.

    Sarcasm doesn't carry well it seems.
     
  20. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    There are examples of what the sentinel card looks like on the internet
     
  21. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Examples of the EU Train Driving License can be found on the internet, including on government websites. Someone has posted a link to an image in post #7.
     
  22. DownSouth

    DownSouth Established Member

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    Most will have got it, but for the one idiot who didn't you could have replied with a simple Whoosh! instead of a serious answer.
     
  23. AngusH

    AngusH Member

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    I read the original post as being curiosity rather than anything else.

    If the original poster is interested for a particular reason, perhaps they might write direct to a rail operator such as Virgin trains or possibly to Network Rail and ask if they would be willing to send an example image of a company id card.

    The answer might be yes if there is a good reason attached. If for example the original poster is needing to correctly identify rail employees in some unknown context.

    Applying directly to the company in question also ensures that the correct procedures are followed.
     
  24. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    No, they don't. We are under no obligation to give out our name at all. And no driver at my TOC (or many others) wears a name badge.

    If a passenger demands my name I will offer them my depot and diagram number. They can also trace me by the train I'm driving (I will provide the headcode if they want) but my name is not required for any reason.

    In this day of social media I will never give out my name. I don't want to see my name plastered all over Twitter or Facebook with some false allegation or derogatory comments mad about me followed by equally nasty comments from other people.

    As for the Op, a train drivers licence looks pretty similar to a car licence. A credit card style piece of plastic with some sort of company logo design on it. It will contain your photo, name, depot, payroll number and expiry date. Many will contain on the front or back traction signed, PTS competency (ie non electrified, AC/DC etc). Any driver qualified to instruct will have this on their cars along with normally a green stripe at the top or bottom to act as a cab pass for the purpose of instructing and assessing.

    The bulk of the licence is on paper kept on file and contains your route card, medical validity, corrective vision authority if applicable along with safety of the line record (sort of endorsements to crudely compare to the DVLA).
     
  25. razourlight962

    razourlight962 Member

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    It's fine, I found the link you attached very helpful :)
     
  26. Jamesb1974

    Jamesb1974 Member

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    Can you please link us to the piece of legislation that says that anyone in any job is under obligation to provide their name to a customer in the event of a dispute???
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  27. dysonsphere

    dysonsphere Member

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    sorry I was thinking more of gaurds/ticket inspectors or security, as a passenger my only contact with drivers would to be hi or nice trip etc.
     
  28. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Maybe not for drivers (who aren't customer/public facing) but I think all guards, platform/ticket office staff, RPI's etc should wear (and display) a name badge; i.e. any member of staff who work directly with the public. And most do that I have seen.

    Not doing so means lack of accountability/responsibility and if they don't give their name when asked, they have something to hide IMO.

    As an example, I would quite happily ask an RPI for their name/ID if they aren't displaying it when doing revenue checks through the train.

    I am fed up of people who refuse to give their name (in any industry) and take responsibility for their actions and I certainly work with many people of this ilk.
     
  29. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    As I say, their full name (or in fact real name) is not needed. You can identify a guard by their diagram or train worked. I would have no issue with using real full names if people weren't to quick to plaster it all over Twitter leading to humiliating and abusive comments against them personally, and they won't be allowed to respond to clear their names.

    Many guards and RPIs etc use an alternate name on their badge but it's registered so they can be traced from it. But that's no different from using a diagram number.
     
  30. Jamesb1974

    Jamesb1974 Member

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    "Tin hats on everyone. Standby to take cover"...
     
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