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Is there some sort of ID card for train drivers?

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AngusH

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Many guards and RPIs etc use an alternate name on their badge but it's registered so they can be traced from it. But that's no different from using a diagram number.


Sort of like a stage name?

This genuinely sounds an excellent idea. It separates the worker on the job from the individual off the job.

(As long as each name is used by only one person and that they can respond to the name when required)

How do they choose the names? Is it assigned or do they pick?
 
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scott118

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Maybe not for drivers (who aren't customer/public facing) but I think all guards, platform/ticket office staff, RPI's etc should wear (and display) a name badge; i.e. any member of staff who work directly with the public. And most do that I have seen.

Not doing so means lack of accountability/responsibility and if they don't give their name when asked, they have something to hide IMO.

As an example, I would quite happily ask an RPI for their name/ID if they aren't displaying it when doing revenue checks through the train.

I am fed up of people who refuse to give their name (in any industry) and take responsibility for their actions and I certainly work with many people of this ilk.

Drivers aren't customer facing? Not even when they get out of their driving cabs?
Just because a name badge is worn, doesn't mean to say it is their name.
 

A-driver

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Sort of like a stage name?

This genuinely sounds an excellent idea. It separates the worker on the job from the individual off the job.

(As long as each name is used by only one person and that they can respond to the name when required)

How do they choose the names? Is it assigned or do they pick?


Not sure how they are picked-think anyone who wants one just requests it. There was an RIP on the GN a while back with "Ralph Wiggum" on his name badge.
 

route:oxford

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Many guards and RPIs etc use an alternate name on their badge but it's registered so they can be traced from it. But that's no different from using a diagram number.

Fairly traditional across the service industry.

Most hairdressers, beauticians and adult entertainment stars also go by a pseudonym.
 

Emblematic

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Can you please link us to the piece of legislation that says that anyone in any job is under obligation to provide their name to a customer in the event of a dispute???

Yes. Gas Fitters. Under the gas safety installation use regulations 2009. Well, you did ask.
 

najaB

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Can you please link us to the piece of legislation that says that anyone in any job is under obligation to provide their name to a customer in the event of a dispute???
I'm pretty sure bailiffs also have to provide proof of identity on request when enforcing a court order.
 

A-driver

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Yes. Gas Fitters. Under the gas safety installation use regulations 2009. Well, you did ask.


Most people are required to put their name to any work they carry out or sign off. But this question was asked more from a customer service industry point of view than a safety point of view. A train driver has to put their real name and signature to countless documents at work for their employer and industry bodies but does not need to provide their full name to a customer of their employer.
 

dk1

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No but have a right to know there name if there is a dispute, anyone not displaying a name badge I think is breaking rules. As for posting an ID is the original poster mad.

Many TOCs printed Traincrew badges with first & surnames. These where thrown away by crews. Now has to be first name only & even that can be changed. What ever where the TOCs thinking?
 

Emblematic

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Most people are required to put their name to any work they carry out or sign off. But this question was asked more from a customer service industry point of view than a safety point of view. A train driver has to put their real name and signature to countless documents at work for their employer and industry bodies but does not need to provide their full name to a customer of their employer.

I agree - no relevance to drivers whatsoever! But the question did say anyone in any job (and in bold) so here's an example ??????
 

mhwatson

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So a customer when asked must give his real name (as evidenced by photocard or whatever), but the staff member asking may be assuming a false one? Really?
 

Qwerty133

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As I say, their full name (or in fact real name) is not needed. You can identify a guard by their diagram or train worked. I would have no issue with using real full names if people weren't to quick to plaster it all over Twitter leading to humiliating and abusive comments against them personally, and they won't be allowed to respond to clear their names.

Many guards and RPIs etc use an alternate name on their badge but it's registered so they can be traced from it. But that's no different from using a diagram number.

I suppose you could argue in the case of RPIs working in groups, that something more than the service is needed to identify the individual involved, and most people probably find a name easier to remember than a multi digit number, however whether that name is the RPIs real name is another matter.
 

pitdiver

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So a customer when asked must give his real name (as evidenced by photocard or whatever), but the staff member asking may be assuming a false one? Really?

If a passenger is being asked for details they may have committed an offence.
That's the difference.
 

Flamingo

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Ever ask a PC for their name - all you get is a badge number. There have been cases of individuals turning up at a Guards front door to continue the discussion.

I always give my surname as Smith when asked.
 

AndyW33

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I could think of plenty of examples where a paying passenger who is also an official with statutory powers can demand to see ID if they have reason to believe an offence is being or has been committed by the railway staff member involved. Police, Customs & Excise/VAT inspectors, Immigration officers, all operate both in uniform and in plain clothes, and that's just the start of the list. Obviously no railway staff member who posts here could ever possibly have committed any kind of offence, but that won't prevent them from being suspected.
Refusal to provide the ID is likely to intensify the suspicion and produce unpleasant if short-term consequences. Of course in some cases the refusal is itself an offence. Sound familiar?
Incidentally, while Flamingo is correct about uniformed PCs, officers not in uniform can't avoid giving names and/or displaying warrant cards if challenged when claiming to be a police officer, and of course officers above the rank of sergeant don't have numbers in the first place.
 
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Flamingo

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But wouldn't a Police Officer etc using their powers simply to get details for a personal matter be an abuse of their office?
 

cf111

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Some supermarkets allow staff to wear name badges with a different name on it if they wish to - several of my former colleagues did so.
 

nottsnurse

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The NHS trust I work for issues us with name badges with our full names on but nearly everyone I know has put tape over their surname. It is quite common for nursing staff to be 'stalked' on Facebook etc by ex-patients so blanking out our surnames has become an unfortunate necessity.

Of course if directly requested for our full name, as registered professionals, we are supposed to provide it, and I'm sure this is the case with any professionally-accredited worker.
 

Greenback

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When I first worked for FGW, name badges only contained the first name. While I was there, they decided to include the last name as well. Thanks to the unions, it was agreed that this did not have to be your real name, and we were able to pick whatever surname we wanted to have displayed.

I personally don't see the need for names at all in most jobs. From a management point of view, I've never had any difficulty identifying a member of staff from other information, such as time, date, location and even a physical description.
 

A-driver

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I could think of plenty of examples where a paying passenger who is also an official with statutory powers can demand to see ID if they have reason to believe an offence is being or has been committed by the railway staff member involved. Police, Customs & Excise/VAT inspectors, Immigration officers, all operate both in uniform and in plain clothes, and that's just the start of the list. Obviously no railway staff member who posts here could ever possibly have committed any kind of offence, but that won't prevent them from being suspected.
Refusal to provide the ID is likely to intensify the suspicion and produce unpleasant if short-term consequences. Of course in some cases the refusal is itself an offence. Sound familiar?
Incidentally, while Flamingo is correct about uniformed PCs, officers not in uniform can't avoid giving names and/or displaying warrant cards if challenged when claiming to be a police officer, and of course officers above the rank of sergeant don't have numbers in the first place.


That has nothing to do with them being rail staff though. Those groups can demand anyone's name regardless of where/if they work. If a customs offices asked for my name at work they would still only get my diagram number as they are only a passenger at that point, not a working customs officer. If they were investigating me they wouldn't be speaking to me whilst I'm at work and would already know my name...
 

Geezertronic

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It is quite common place to use an alternative name for identification to the public (note I said alternative name instead of false name)

In my experience of people in the Indian Call Centres for example, their real names are sometimes too difficult for Joe Public to understand & spell so they sometimes adopt a more common name like Mike or Steve. Some people in the Welsh Data Centres will give their middle name instead of their forename as well.

As mentioned by a poster above, in this day and age of the internet it can usually be quite easy to find someone on social media using their forename & surname which is why I personally go via the handle Geezertronic rather than my name. Mind you, you could find me via that name as well :)
 
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Matt Taylor

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Guards also have a licence which can be withdrawn at any time, it also doubles as a PTS card and staff ID for use when in non-public areas and is generally worn on a lanyard so I guess it is on public display to a degree. Previously Our licence/PTS was on card and included details of what traction we were authorised to work and had to be carried at all times when working trains in the same way as a driving licence.
 

Rugd1022

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If we're going to have stage names can I have Turk Thrust...? (Old Peter Sellers joke for anyone born after 1980 ;)).

I've recently received my new Driver's ID card but for some reason the photo is missing!
 

AndyW33

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That has nothing to do with them being rail staff though. Those groups can demand anyone's name regardless of where/if they work. If a customs offices asked for my name at work they would still only get my diagram number as they are only a passenger at that point, not a working customs officer. If they were investigating me they wouldn't be speaking to me whilst I'm at work and would already know my name...

Customs officers - I was thinking more of Eurostar staff (or equally importantly people dressed in railway uniform but not current employees) being tackled by plain clothes officers who had used paid-for tickets to avoid tipping anyone off that an operation was in progress. Of course they might also be interested in anyone driving freight trains out of docks, anyone selling alcohol on trains, anyone selling anything that ought to bear VAT, and so on. Yes, they're entitled to ask anyone for their name, provided they identify themselves first. But some of the comments here suggested that there were no circumstances at all under which they would give their name to anyone whatsoever who looked like a passenger while they were on duty. Frankly law enforcement types (using the term loosely), BTP aside, aren't going to see a diagram number as a valid or acceptable response, and their own response to receiving it is likely to be arranging a stay in an interview room.
 
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AngusH

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Here is a mock up of a network rail sentinel card.

https://www.safety.networkrail.co.uk/safety-groups/sentinel

Thanks for posting this, I hadn't seen this before.

From the page:

secure and encrypted information is stored on the smartcard’s chip and updated through regular use, rather than printed on the card itself.

I'm interested that with these cards much of the information isn't (mostly) visible on the physical card, but stored on it in digital format. Which is hopefully more difficult to forge.
 

PermitToTravel

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Ever ask a PC for their name - all you get is a badge number.

Officers of the Metropolitan Police wear name badges showing their first and last name (with no pseudonyms, either!); something I've always thought to be incredibly silly and unnecessary.
 

cool110

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I'm interested that with these cards much of the information isn't (mostly) visible on the physical card, but stored on it in digital format. Which is hopefully more difficult to forge.

As it says on the page it's more for cost saving as some of the information changes quite frequently.
 

Marklund

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I'm interested that with these cards much of the information isn't (mostly) visible on the physical card, but stored on it in digital format. Which is hopefully more difficult to forge.

There's various ways to verify the data, be it calling the automated hotline, using the smart card functions, or in the case of NR, scanning the barcode using the Sentinel smart phone app. (Although any barcode reader will work)

Doesn't show IRSE licence details though, just AiTL competencies.
 

A-driver

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Customs officers - I was thinking more of Eurostar staff (or equally importantly people dressed in railway uniform but not current employees) being tackled by plain clothes officers who had used paid-for tickets to avoid tipping anyone off that an operation was in progress. Of course they might also be interested in anyone driving freight trains out of docks, anyone selling alcohol on trains, anyone selling anything that ought to bear VAT, and so on. Yes, they're entitled to ask anyone for their name, provided they identify themselves first. But some of the comments here suggested that there were no circumstances at all under which they would give their name to anyone whatsoever who looked like a passenger while they were on duty. Frankly law enforcement types (using the term loosely), BTP aside, aren't going to see a diagram number as a valid or acceptable response, and their own response to receiving it is likely to be arranging a stay in an interview room.


I think perhaps you are getting slightly into the realms of fantasy and rather extreme circumstances. When it comes to day to day scenarios a name is not required.
 
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