Is this fare totally useless?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by agbrs_Jack, 17 Jun 2019.

  1. agbrs_Jack

    agbrs_Jack Member

    Messages:
    195
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    28 Apr 2017
    Location:
    Congleton
    Hi,
    It appears to me that this Anytime fare (and the equivalent off-peak) are completely useless unless you don't realise.
    This fare is useless (£31.70)
    http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CNG&dest=LIV&grpd=0435&tkt=SOR

    This fare is what people travelling from Congleton (CNG) to Liverpool Lime Street (LIV) should use as it is valid for Break of Journey and valid via Congleton and Manchester (also alternatively valid via Crewe/Runcorn): (£21.40)
    http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=KDG&dest=LIV&grpd=0435&tkt=SOR

    Northern tried to 'fix' this by introducing a Northern only ticket for CNG to LIV:
    http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CNG&dest=LIV&rte=83&tkt=SHR
    This did nothing as it still costs more (£22.90) but also restricts the passenger to Northern only.
    Using the Kidsgrove - Liverpool fare (£21.40) you could get TPE or EMT between Manchester and Liverpool.

    I cannot see any benefit to purchasing the CNG-LIV SOR. (or the equivalent off peak).
    (Other than passenger usage figures, but price always comes first.)
     
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  3. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Location:
    Manchester
    You will need the more expensive ticket in the future, if the permitted routes for the Kidsgrove to Liverpool ticket are modified to prevent passengers from Congleton using it. This is exponentially more likely now that you have posted this:
    Especially because you have chosen a provocative title, and made it very clear that there is no reason for your post except to try to undercut the prices charged from Congleton ;)
     
  4. agbrs_Jack

    agbrs_Jack Member

    Messages:
    195
    Joined:
    28 Apr 2017
    Location:
    Congleton
    Northern are already aware of this fare and that it’s cheaper and the ticket office staff make passengers aware of it also.

    Northern responded to me saying that they introduced the Northern only fare as a result. I even explained how this new fare makes little to no difference.

    I suppose the Congleton - Liverpool flow isn’t large enough for it to matter too much. Manchester will be the main concern.
     
  5. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    The fare from Congleton to Liverpool is set by TransPennine Express, and the fare from Kidsgrove to Liverpool by West Midlands Trains. The latter could respond to your post on here by amending it to route via Runcorn. There are a whole host of other things that could be changed now that you have brought this up.

    What were you hoping to gain here?
     
  6. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    One needs to be very careful when exposing fares anomalies on this forum. TOC Pricing Managers watch this forum like hawks and are very keen to shut down these anomalies.

    This type of discussion is best done by Private Conversation or at a Forum Meal.
     
  7. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

    Messages:
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    Joined:
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    Location:
    Manchester
    Indeed. Perhaps @agbrs_Jack would also like to consider coming along to one of our free Fares Workshops?

    Feel free to get in touch for more details.
     
  8. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    As for genuinely useless fares, there are plenty...

    Cases where "TOC only" tickets are more expensive than "Any permitted" (even on Anytimes), cases where "via circuitous route" is more expensive than "Any permitted" (I suppose that's not entirely useless if you really want to take the circuitous route in cases where it's not an ordinarily permitted route). Even cases where a route-restricted ticket is more expensive than the "Any permitted" even though it is a normally permitted route. Some of them are obviously only there to "catch" the unaware passenger, others are historical anomalies, others are for revenue "abstraction" (i.e. so that another TOC can get a greater share of the revenue than they would on the more useful ticket).
     
  9. Samuel88

    Samuel88 On Moderation

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    I do wonder if some posters on here work for a TOC and knowing that they can't just withdraw a cheaper fare without justification, post that fare on a public forum. Then again, I do like conspiracies....
     
  10. Qwerty133

    Qwerty133 Established Member

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    Depending on the motivations of the pricing manager the WM one may well be quite happy with the lower price as under the ORCATS formula it's almost certain that WM will get more of the revenue from the Kidsgrove fare so overall they may well receive more from the Kidsgrove fare being sold. That being said I imagine the pricing managers at the different TOCS must have a reasonable working relationship and will work together to block these loopholes as otherwise, TOCs would end up taking it in turns to deliberately undercut each other meaning that they all lost revenue overall. The bigger issue is that the OP has stated that the ticket office staff have been mentioning the fare which would almost certainly go against impartial retailing in that while the staff should sell the ticket if it is specifically asked for it is not appropriate for them to proactively sell it.
     

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