ralphchadkirk
Established Member
My apologies then - I must have misunderstood. Therefore we both agree on that point.
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Islamic Extremists vow to march through Wootton Bassett
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My apologies then - I must have misunderstood. Therefore we both agree on that point.
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I couldn't find anything about Plymouth. What I did find was that a parade in West Bromwich had been cancelled. But this was not because of fear of annoying local ethnic minorities, but because the local BNP and other right-wing groups were using the parade to stir up violence against other ethnic groups. A world of difference.
Snapper
Established Member
And more examples of misleading quotes.
Persecution of political opponents is hardly an application of Sharia law and neither was the Genocide in Darfur (which was political not religious).
Some Islamic countries have appalling records on human rights. But that does not entitle anyone to try and tar all of them with the same brush - or all Moslems - which is what you are trying to do.
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Old Timer
Established Member
I am surprised that you find both the Human Rights Watch and BBC websites to be misleading, especially as both organisations have ben widely quoted by the various Left Wing organisations and media, such as The Guardian. I presume you will point out to the two organisations that they are publishing misleading information, to prevent any future issues ?
An on the Contrary Sharia Law is used to justify the various attricities committed, as you well know.
Old tricks die hard, eh Snapper ?
I was responding to your post seeking to suggest all is sweetness and light in the Muslim world. It is not, except to those who hold Left Wing views and whose silence on their Human Rights record is deafening by its absence.
Had you bothered to read my earlier post you would have understood that I have pointed out that the extremeist do not represent all Muslims, but then why let the truth spoil a good old stab ?
Snapper
Established Member
You try to claim that your view is reasoned and that you are not tarring everyone with the same brush. Your posts and your attitude suggest otherwise. Just reading through what you have been saying in this thread makes it apparent that you are as keen to stir up discord as the people that you condemn.
Old Timer
Established Member
Ah, yes Phase 2. Throw in the racism card.
Tell me Snapper do you guys all get trained to act the same way ?
No dont bother, there is no need to reply. I am bored with this and it has taken up far too much time.
As far as I am concerned they don't represent a sizeable chunk of Muslims in the UK, they are set on a course to stir up trouble, and frankly as I said in my first post they should just be ignored by everyone, but especially the Media.
For your information Snapper, I have a muslim driver who takes me to and from the airport. He is an electronics engineer taxi-driving whilst he tries to get a job. A very nice chap who I always ask for and we talk at great length about many things.
I suspect if you met him you would probably be speechless because he will not conform to your own view of what a Muslim should be no doubt. He has some very specific views on these extremists, sadly they don't accord with yours but then again he is a Muslim so you would have difficulty in accusing him. Incidentally it was he who suggested those websites to me
Anyway I intend to waste no more time on this subject.
Be good.
Snapper
Established Member
That would be rather difficult to do when it's a religion that's being discussed...:roll:
A lot of examples of so called "St George's Day parade banned" stories are actually councils refusing permission due to failure to comply with procedure and I am not aware of any well-intentioned parades being banned. One such "banning" in Luton took place because the organisers couldn't even tell the local authority the route so they could arrange the necessary road closures!
Nonetheless, I'm against the idea of a St George's Day and, as much criticism as it attracted, I'm in favour of Gordon's "Britain Day." I am not English, I am British.
Nonetheless, I'm against the idea of a St George's Day and, as much criticism as it attracted, I'm in favour of Gordon's "Britain Day." I am not English, I am British.
Geezertronic
Established Member
I am English, proud of it, and British second. Sadly, though, when I (and I guess many others) see the English flag, I immediately think of football violence and shaven-headed, brainless thugs with attack dogs kicking the s**t out of anyone they think of as foreign. How we can reclaim the national image - or even whether we should - is beyond me. Equally sadly (to get back on-topic) it is that sector of society that I can see "counter demonstrating" against the march.
thefab444
Established Member
I too am English and a European. Britain doesn't come in to it anywhere, it's a collection of nationalities in my view, not a nationality in itself. As far as I am concerned, Scotland (and Wales or Northern Ireland) should be quite free to go independent if that is what the people decide through a referendum. I don't see why people are against splitting the Union just to preserve the "greatness of Britain" etc. 
In my opinion we've got more in common with our continental neighbours than we have with Scotland, perhaps if the UK hadn't been formed, we would be far more integrated with Europe.
Above post is not anti-Scottish in any way before I am told off, I am sure similar views are aired north of the border, especially with Alex Salmond's desire to form partnerships with Scandanavian countries.
In my opinion we've got more in common with our continental neighbours than we have with Scotland, perhaps if the UK hadn't been formed, we would be far more integrated with Europe. Above post is not anti-Scottish in any way before I am told off, I am sure similar views are aired north of the border, especially with Alex Salmond's desire to form partnerships with Scandanavian countries.
Geezertronic
Established Member
Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain 
thefab444
Established Member
It's 'part' of the United Kingdom though.
the sniper
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I'm proud to say I'm European, and to a lesser extent, British.
SouthEastern-465
Established Member
I would agree with you 100% there.
Snapper
Established Member
Benefit means tested according to political and religious views?
How fascinating a concept from those defenders of 'Western values' and freedom of expression' - who also condemn others for 'political oppression'.
Hypocrisy, pure and simple.
How fascinating a concept from those defenders of 'Western values' and freedom of expression' - who also condemn others for 'political oppression'.
Hypocrisy, pure and simple.
Geezertronic
Established Member
Can you put a quote against that statement please as I cannot see any comments reflecting that point of view in this thread?
I know, terrible isn't it. No-one can spell "to". We're doomed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Good luck getting an English passport!And I am not British, I am English
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some people from Yorkshire and Cornwall would probably say the same about England!
It's far too easy to pretend to be seeking work from what I've heard. I've indirectly heard of enthusiasts travelling up and down the country while on job seekers allowance, and falsifying claims that they have job interviews, they were overheard saying how easy it is. I agree it should be a lot tougher to claim these benefits, but certainly for everyone irrespective of race or religion. There's loads of 'chavs' (or whatever people want to call them) near here who are basically unemployable and on drugs who get loads of benefits.Old Timer said:
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
thefab444 - surely Europe is just a collection of nationalities too?
thefab444
Established Member
Indeed, and it isn't (despite what the Eurosceptics may have you believe) anything more.
Snapper
Established Member
They're not hard to find. Try page 7 and this quote from Old Timer:
" This individual contributes absolutely nothing to this Country in any way and is simply a drain on our welfare, social, and housing provisions.
As I understand matters, to claim these benefits, Choudary should be "actively seeking work", something I suspect he has not done, nor presumably has any intention of doing. Instead he spends his time creating disharmony, rabble rouisng and appearing in TV studios, seemingly without let or hindrance.
One wonders if anyone will dare to look closely at Choudray's entitlement to these benefits if he is not actively seeking work, and indeed on the basis of how he spends his time, never can be, thus being in violation of the requirements to receive benefit ?
Umm, Old Timer is saying what everyone is thinking! Anjem Choudhary is supposedly claiming Jobseekers Allowance but yet doesn't seem to be engaged in looking for work - and let's not forget he is a trained lawyer. Instead of looking for employment as he should be, he seeks to create disharmony and rabble rouse. Why the hell should my taxes support this waste of space?! His political and religious views are irrelevant - the fact is he is taking taxpayer's money under false pretences and it should be stopped.
Old Timer
Established Member
You arrogant prig.
How dare you come on hear and make such disingenuous statements, deliberately twisting my words to support your own sordid political leanings and inferring what was never said.
It is breathtaking that you come here claiming to occupy some moral high ground that only those who agree with you can ever occupy.
You are typical of the N1 Guardian reading “intelligentsia”. I suspect that you live somewhere well away from the various ethnic minorities which you arrogantly assume to speak on behalf of.
If you knew anything at all about the moderate Muslims, and I happen to know, work with and shop from them, you would know that just about every law abiding Muslim abhor this man, his beliefs, and what he is trying to do.
If you were even able to bring yourself to go and talk to some Muslims you would find their views on him and his sort who abuse the UK to be somewhat extreme to say the least in comparison to what many have written on here. Unfortunately THAT does not accord with your own narrow political beliefs and views of which so many of us here, and on other Forums, get so fed up reading.
I demand an apology and the withdrawal of those posts.
How dare you come on hear and make such disingenuous statements, deliberately twisting my words to support your own sordid political leanings and inferring what was never said.
It is breathtaking that you come here claiming to occupy some moral high ground that only those who agree with you can ever occupy.
You are typical of the N1 Guardian reading “intelligentsia”. I suspect that you live somewhere well away from the various ethnic minorities which you arrogantly assume to speak on behalf of.
If you knew anything at all about the moderate Muslims, and I happen to know, work with and shop from them, you would know that just about every law abiding Muslim abhor this man, his beliefs, and what he is trying to do.
If you were even able to bring yourself to go and talk to some Muslims you would find their views on him and his sort who abuse the UK to be somewhat extreme to say the least in comparison to what many have written on here. Unfortunately THAT does not accord with your own narrow political beliefs and views of which so many of us here, and on other Forums, get so fed up reading.
I demand an apology and the withdrawal of those posts.
Snapper
Established Member
What on earth are you ranting on about now?
Know any Muslims?
For over a decade I used to manage Council Housing estates in the East End of London, a large chunk of my tenants were called Choudary! (and Miah and lots of other names based around Islam)
Stop trying to muddy the water and divert attention when your own prejudices are exposed!
Claiming benefit? According to at least one of the national newspapers (easily found by Googling the chaps name) he 'according to friends' claims £202 a month Income Support. So, if he's on IS he's not on the dole merely in a low income job!
And, even if he was on the dole, he's still entitled to political freedom of expression and religious belief - something that you hypocritically claim he shouldn't be whilst at the same time condemning Muslim extremists and countries like Iran for doing exactly the same thing!
Know any Muslims?
For over a decade I used to manage Council Housing estates in the East End of London, a large chunk of my tenants were called Choudary! (and Miah and lots of other names based around Islam)
Stop trying to muddy the water and divert attention when your own prejudices are exposed!
Claiming benefit? According to at least one of the national newspapers (easily found by Googling the chaps name) he 'according to friends' claims £202 a month Income Support. So, if he's on IS he's not on the dole merely in a low income job!
And, even if he was on the dole, he's still entitled to political freedom of expression and religious belief - something that you hypocritically claim he shouldn't be whilst at the same time condemning Muslim extremists and countries like Iran for doing exactly the same thing!
Tom B
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ADMIN NOTE:
Keep the discussion civilised - do not use personal attacks to try and prove your point.
Keep the discussion civilised - do not use personal attacks to try and prove your point.
TrainBrain185
Member
Snapper
Established Member
I note the use of the word 'Supposedly' - in other words you have no idea.
According to the London Evening Standard he's not:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...uslim-cleric-demanding-the-popes-execution.do
"Choudary has also claimed £202 a month in income support. "
Like a large part of this thread, all this is total supposition wrapped up as moral outrage. It's a classic example of how one person can cause so much flapping whilst doing nothing at all. The sad thing is that the gullible fall for it and others use it for their own ends.
Tbh Snapper, I suspect the Evening Standard have no idea either!!! Alas it's a private matter for the Gentleman concerned! Some papers say he is on JSA, some say he isn't - but we do know he is receiving taxpayers' money in some form. Morally acceptable given that he denounces everything Britain stands for? I don't think so!
I must take issue with the suggestion he's 'done nothing'. Was he not a leading light in Al-Muhajiroun's '9/11 - A Towering Day in History' business? That's just for starters...
I must take issue with the suggestion he's 'done nothing'. Was he not a leading light in Al-Muhajiroun's '9/11 - A Towering Day in History' business? That's just for starters...
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Snapper
Established Member
It's not a private matter for the Department of Work and Pensions!
But this is all about living in a Democracy. Remember? That was what people like to lecture makes us 'superior' to them - until someone they don't like comes along - then the rules are meant to be different.
That's when the hypocrisy kicks in.
Old Timer
Established Member
Yes quite, a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
You have deliberately and disingenuously twisted my words. No-one has said anything about his right to his views. What HAS been commented on is his claimming state benefits when he is clearly not available for work.
Not only do you obviously support the extremists that are working to destabilise this Country, you are also clearly lining up behind those who are abuisng the social security and benefits system of thsi Country.
As you will NOT know (or maybe you dont actually care) he has written to the parents and families of those soldiers killed saying he had "no sympathy for them whatsoever".. These are the families of soldiers hwo are tryng to hold back the Taliban in Afghanistan who are overtly trying to destroy the democracy in that Country.
He is also reported as presiding over secret "Sharia" marriages which he tells the couples not to legally register, thereby denying the wives of any legal protection. Imam Shahid Raza one of the UKs leading Sharia Judges states that Choudary "does not have the right qualifications to qualify as a Sharia judge."
All this clearly indicates he is not available for work in accordance with the benefits law and thus supports my point.
You are not only out of step with most right thinking people on here, but also with most moderate Muslims. You really ought to go and talk to some Muslims before coming on here.
This never has been anything to do with religious views as you full well know but twist to suit your own ends.
I await your apology.
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