Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm frequently angered that onward train services are no longer available to various destinations, even though the rail link went some time ago. Leigh Lancs is a frequent one for me.

The Leigh Guided Busway with its new Vantage-branded double-deck buses runs to a limited stop high frequency service V1 timetable from the Manchester core area direct into Leigh bus station which is central to the town centre. It utilises the provided bus lanes on the East Lancashire Road in addition to the actual guided Busway and has intermediate stops that meet the needs of those in areas that the original railway never did serve. It has a bus stop outside Salford Crescent railway station.

 

[yorksrob]

The Leigh Guided Busway with its new Vantage-branded double-deck buses runs to a limited stop high frequency service V1 timetable from the Manchester core area direct into Leigh bus station which is central to the town centre. It utilises the provided bus lanes on the East Lancashire Road in addition to the actual guided Busway and has intermediate stops that meet the needs of those in areas that the original railway never did serve. It has a bus stop outside Salford Crescent railway station.

There is at least, still a good train service as far as Atherton.

 

[Chris125]

I have once used buses on the IoW but it was in 1996 and experience of buses elsewhere in the country tells me that buses everywhere but London have got significantly worse since then. In 1996 our journey (from Sandown to the Needles) required a change in Newport that involved changing bus stops from one street to another with almost no helpful signage in place.

Around a decade back bus services on the Island were completely re-mapped to make them simpler and more reliable - all journeys through Newport now require a change at the rebuilt bus station.

Alas new retail units took precedence, with the bus station stuffed into the remaining space behind - the result is a poor layout that's confusing for inexperienced users and really hard to move around when busy due to some ridiculous bottlenecks. A complete screw-up unfortunately with no easy remedy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing is noticeable about TfL - bus stations are grandiose and prominent, not tucked behind shops or removed completely as if they were some form of embarrassment.

Mind you, given that the office of London Mayor is near enough an elected TfL chief, that demonstrates how the issue of passenger transport dwarfs almost any other issue in London. Shame it is not so elsewhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Leigh Guided Busway with its new Vantage-branded double-deck buses runs to a limited stop high frequency service V1 timetable from the Manchester core area direct into Leigh bus station which is central to the town centre. It utilises the provided bus lanes on the East Lancashire Road in addition to the actual guided Busway and has intermediate stops that meet the needs of those in areas that the original railway never did serve. It has a bus stop outside Salford Crescent railway station.

I had a go at that. On the day concerned punctuality was way off, and the aircon/blowers had failed (or the drivers weren't turning them on) on several of the buses, meaning an unpleasant damp atmosphere and no doubt the looming "smell of wee" (which is actually a smell of damp in the upholstery).

A typical First half-job, and no match even for a half-hourly Pacer.

OTOH, Southern Vectis is a rather more professional outfit in my experience than First Manchester. And my experience on the primarily Stagecoach Cambridge busway was much better.

 

[Dougal2345]

The Leigh Guided Busway with its new Vantage-branded double-deck buses runs to a limited stop high frequency service V1 timetable from the Manchester core area direct into Leigh bus station which is central to the town centre. It utilises the provided bus lanes on the East Lancashire Road in addition to the actual guided Busway and has intermediate stops that meet the needs of those in areas that the original railway never did serve. It has a bus stop outside Salford Crescent railway station.

Crikey, that sounds absolutely hideous, pounding along on a double decker for miles. And I've just been to look at some pictures - the word 'cramped' for the bus interiors would be a kind description.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crikey, that sounds absolutely hideous, pounding along on a double decker for miles. And I've just been to look at some pictures - the word 'cramped' for the bus interiors would be a kind description.

The interiors are nice enough and the ride isn't bad. The problem is that First can never see a plan through properly, and so they have most of the disadvantages of existing buses.

A railway or Metrolink extension would really have been better.

 

[Dougal2345]

The interiors are nice enough and the ride isn't bad. The problem is that First can never see a plan through properly, and so they have most of the disadvantages of existing buses.

A railway or Metrolink extension would really have been better.

Yes, at the end of the day, a bus on a busway is still a bus. Maybe it gets from A to B a bit quicker than an 'unguided' bus, but it's still not a way I would choose to travel...

So should the Isle of Wight be dreaming of a transport future that looks like this:

Spoiler

...or like this?

Spoiler

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from that showing yet another case of the driver not being bothered to turn the demisters/aircon on on the V1 (clearly a problem there, then), is there much comfort difference between that bus and a Class 700?

BTW have you tried the Cambridgeshire busway? It genuinely has the feel of a decently redone Pacer (an ePacer, say) on a country branch line, it's actually quite pleasant.

 

[yorksrob]

Apart from that showing yet another case of the driver not being bothered to turn the demisters/aircon on on the V1 (clearly a problem there, then), is there much comfort difference between that bus and a Class 700?

BTW have you tried the Cambridgeshire busway? It genuinely has the feel of a decently redone Pacer (an ePacer, say) on a country branch line, it's actually quite pleasant.

So no overhead luggage racks then !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, at the end of the day, a bus on a busway is still a bus.

By a seemingly flight of creative logic, could one therefore claim that a bus body on a rail chassis is still a bus?

 

[yorksrob]

By a seemingly flight of creative logic, could one therefore claim that a bus body on a rail chassis is still a bus?

For a bus body on a railway chassis, one doesn't have the difficulty of trying to work out whether you're at the right stop or not for starters.

 

[Chris M]

For a bus body on a railway chassis, one doesn't have the difficulty of trying to work out whether you're at the right stop or not for starters.

This is another example of where London has got things right. The iBus system announcing stops is (mostly*) excellent, but even if it were applied to many country routes it wouldn't outweigh the many other disadvantages buses have over trains for comparable journeys.
*It announces my stop too late though, so if someone presses the button a couple of seconds after the announcement (far from unreasonable reaction time) the driver has to really slam on the anchors to stop in time from 20-30mph (the road is officially 20mph but everyone treats it like the 30 limit it used to be and still looks and feels like it is).

 

[Clip]

The same bus runs to Ryde Esplanade, most people will do that rather than changing. Walking up the pier really isn't that unpleasant and a lot of people do - after all, people like walking on piers at seaside resorts for no reason, even when the weather is a bit rubbish.

Ill take your word on most people but if they do then it shows there could be a viable service for reinstatement

 

[Rick1984]

Soon going to be a bus going down pier

http://www.islandecho.co.uk/wightlink-supports-islanders-affected-rail-strike/

Wightlink is acting to help Isle of Wight commuters and other foot passengers who cross the Solent and then catch trains to their final destinations this week.

For foot passengers still travelling between Ryde Pier Head and Portsmouth Harbour on the FastCat, Wightlink are offering a courtesy bus service up and down Ryde pier.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I had a go at that. On the day concerned punctuality was way off, and the aircon/blowers had failed (or the drivers weren't turning them on) on several of the buses, meaning an unpleasant damp atmosphere and no doubt the looming "smell of wee" (which is actually a smell of damp in the upholstery).

I have made quite a number of journeys from the Manchester city core both to Leigh on the V1 service and to Atherton on the V2 service and never had the same problems that you report.

 

[class387]

Soon going to be a bus going down pier

http://www.islandecho.co.uk/wightlink-supports-islanders-affected-rail-strike/

Does that mean standard sized trains can run on the rest of the line?

 

[DelW]

Does that mean standard sized trains can run on the rest of the line?

I think the point is that there aren't any trains on the line today (or presumably tomorrow).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the point is that there aren't any trains on the line today (or presumably tomorrow).

This is where reality raises its head and where the omnibus services of Southern Vectis that have oft been decried on this thread suddenly seem quite a good alternative mode of public transport

 

[Rick1984]

Let's see what sort of bus first! Unfortunately I'm not in Ryde.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is where reality raises its head and where the omnibus services of Southern Vectis that have oft been decried on this thread suddenly seem quite a good alternative mode of public transport

I don't get why anyone decries them - they are quite possibly (if slightly pricey) the best rural bus network in the world.

 

[A0wen]

Let's see what sort of bus first! Unfortunately I'm not in Ryde.

It will be a minibus of some description I expect - probably a Transit or similar, if only because the pier has weight restrictions on it. And a Transit could shuttle up and down all day taking a few passengers at a time - it's unlikely to get swamped if it's running like that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will be a minibus of some description I expect - probably a Transit or similar, if only because the pier has weight restrictions on it. And a Transit could shuttle up and down all day taking a few passengers at a time - it's unlikely to get swamped if it's running like that.

If the railway closed, a minibus-sized electric vehicle (or two, so one can be charging at any given time and both could be used at really busy times) would be ideal.

 

[Chris M]

I don't get why anyone decries [Southern Vectis] - they are quite possibly (if slightly pricey) the best rural bus network in the world.

Today.
The problem with bus services in this country is that there is virtually no meaningful regulation, so there is no guarantee that what is a good service today may even be operating tomorrow. Indeed less than a fortnight ago a bus company in Somerset literally closed its doors overnight with no notice what so ever (see below). AIUI the only penalties that could potentially be imposed are prohibiting the owner running another bus company.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-somerset-blunt-note-workforce-a8033246.html

A bus company boss fired his entire workforce with a blunt note telling them: "F**k it... I cannot work with you a moment longer."

Managing director Sydney Hardy shut down Somerset firm Nippy Bus with immediate effect and told staff, thought to include his own daughter, he wanted to "pursue my dream of not having to work here".

The sudden closure left 27 drivers out of work and affected 300 children whose school bus service was cancelled with no notice.
find replacement operators at the last minute to get the pupils to and from lessons.

Mr Hardy, 57, had run Nippy Bus for 13 years from the company's headquarters in Martock, a village near Yeovil.

In a message to staff through the company's internal memo system, he wrote: "There is a difference between giving up and knowing when you have had enough. I have had enough and realise I cannot work with you, the people I employ, a moment longer.

"There comes a time in any relationship when you just have to say 'F*** it', say goodbye and move on. This is my time! I am quitting to pursue my dream of not having to work here."
A bus company boss fired his entire workforce with a blunt note telling them: "F**k it... I cannot work with you a moment longer."

Managing director Sydney Hardy shut down Somerset firm Nippy Bus with immediate effect and told staff, thought to include his own daughter, he wanted to "pursue my dream of not having to work here".

The sudden closure left 27 drivers out of work and affected 300 children whose school bus service was cancelled with no notice.

Local schools and colleges were left rushing to find replacement operators at the last minute to get the pupils to and from lessons.

Mr Hardy, 57, had run Nippy Bus for 13 years from the company's headquarters in Martock, a village near Yeovil.

In a message to staff through the company's internal memo system, he wrote: "There is a difference between giving up and knowing when you have had enough. I have had enough and realise I cannot work with you, the people I employ, a moment longer.

"There comes a time in any relationship when you just have to say 'F*** it', say goodbye and move on. This is my time! I am quitting to pursue my dream of not having to work here."

He said "all staff should consider themselves dismissed/redundant", adding: "The gates are now closed and will not open so you can can stay in your scratchers Monday and have a lie in."

A brief note on the firm's website said it had ceased operating with immediate effect. It added: "The company has appointed agents who will now work to release the company's assets and discharge its liabilities."

 

[swt_passenger]

If the railway closed, a minibus-sized electric vehicle (or two, so one can be charging at any given time and both could be used at really busy times) would be ideal.

Minibuses are out of gauge for the pier currently. There are goalposts to prevent anything larger than a car based van.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Minibuses are out of gauge for the pier currently. There are goalposts to prevent anything larger than a car based van.

If they are going to be running one, I guess that will need to change. Looks like a 6' 6" height barrier to me, though, you can get things like 9 seater VWs under that.

What is presently the weight limit? It's a bit hard to read on Google Street View.

For a 10mph speed limit something custom like a modified electric golf buggy could be built.

 

[DelW]

I don't get why anyone decries them - they are quite possibly (if slightly pricey) the best rural bus network in the world.

They do provide a good service over much of the island, but they are not a good substitute for the trains between Pier Head, Esplanade, IoWSR, or the south eastern resorts. The reasons include pier weight limits, roundabout routes, and traffic congestion.

If the railway closed, a minibus-sized electric vehicle (or two, so one can be charging at any given time and both could be used at really busy times) would be ideal.

You'd need a lot more than two minibuses at busy times, the 2-car 38 stock trains are often full and standing to near Northern Line levels in the summer.

 

[swt_passenger]

If they are going to be running one, I guess that will need to change. Looks like a 6' 6" height barrier to me, though, you can get things like 9 seater VWs under that.

What is presently the weight limit? It's a bit hard to read on Google Street View.

For a 10mph speed limit something custom like a modified electric golf buggy could be built.

You'd need quite a few to deal with a fully laden fast cat?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'd need quite a few to deal with a fully laden fast cat?

A lot of people are happy to walk, though. If there was a queue for a bus (with priority for those who can't walk) more would probably quite happily walk. It's not at all unpleasant in summer, and a covered walkway could be added for rain.

 

[Rick1984]

I agree these aren't suitable replacement ideas. If you did close the line which I'm against surely done sort of tram the same size as the train running on the train tracks would make more sense