Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[hooverboy]

Vertically squashed battery 73? A bit like the Merseyrail Sandite unit once was, being formed of two Class 501 trailers with a 73 in the middle?

I think GBRF has probably earmarked all of the remaining 73's for retrofit with the new engines and bin the 20's.

brush traction seems to have done a sterling job and made the 73's something really quite useable now.
the old class 20's were great because they had low RA and small wheelbase,they could go anywhere,but their days are numbered now.

there are still plenty of rural freight routes and local branch lines where a 66 is really a complete waste of resources.

pair of 20's, good in tandem but fuel hungry,useless individually
class 25...would have been fantastic with a better more powerful engine
class 31..some RA issues and underpowered/unreliable
class 33...not bad at all for a light-ish duty mixed load engine
class 37...good workhorse,but not so flexible on routes with sharp bends as co-co.can't hack it for really heavy duty freight(cue class 66)
class 47..STILL damn good multi purpose unit.

in the retrofitted 73 ,brush have now got a class 20/class 37 hybrid.

 

[Why]

Yes it is !! Many journeys on the central line towards Epping were like that when I used to travel that way in the 80s and 90s

Unit 006 looked like it had just been refurbished .... Top job with window frames varnished.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depot pets at their finest

 

[Cavan]

Cant island line just buy some of the old LU yellow battery locomotives to drag the 1938 stock for a few years?

 

[Chris125]

Vertically squashed battery 73? A bit like the Merseyrail Sandite unit once was, being formed of two Class 501 trailers with a 73 in the middle?

Funnily enough it has been said that the Class 73 was developed from an idea for a IoW Motor Luggage Van - it seems BR favoured the 'Standard Stock' being hauled or fitted with diesel engines, whereas the council argued for electrification.

Cant island line just buy some of the old LU yellow battery locomotives to drag the 1938 stock for a few years?

The most obvious issue is that none are, or soon will be, available AFAIK.

 

[Chris M]

Cant island line just buy some of the old LU yellow battery locomotives to drag the 1938 stock for a few years?

Only if they are for sale. I am not aware that any are, indeed ISTR that LU have recently converted some of the diesel locos left over from building the Jubilee Line Extension into battery locos so as to expand their fleet of them. Another thing to remember is that battery locos are significantly heavier than an EMU, and it's been several decades at least since the line on the island was used by anything other than EMUs (even before that the stock was I think typically lighter than average for the mainland)

 

[JohnRegular]

Do the existing LU battery locos have enough range/power to work the Island line? I got the impression they ran off 4th rail most of the time and didn't need to use battery power a great deal.

 

[Cavan]

I think l62 through to l67 are in store and not being used?

 

[Dstock7080]

I think l62 through to l67 are in store and not being used?

All scrapped now.

 

[Cavan]

Ah okay - interesting. Thanks.

 

[Chris M]

Do the existing LU battery locos have enough range/power to work the Island line? I got the impression they ran off 4th rail most of the time and didn't need to use battery power a great deal.

They do run using track power as much as possible, but how much range and power they actually have when running on battery I don't know. As they are designed to haul heavy engineering trains, I don't think EMUs will be an issue in terms of power. Range though I don't know.

 

[Chris125]

Another thing to remember is that battery locos are significantly heavier than an EMU, and it's been several decades at least since the line on the island was used by anything other than EMUs (even before that the stock was I think typically lighter than average for the mainland)

I think they weigh over 50 tonnes - even if the pier, underbridges and dodgy embankments could take that weight, at best with some crippling speed restrictions, they'd surely knock the living daylights out of the track. Extra weight is probably best avoided tbh.

 

[Rick1984]

A 3 car articulated bespoke order from Stadler would be best. The size of depot could be an issue with that length. Preferably EMU but if DMU put in a engine module like the Anglian bi- modes.
Keep them mechanically simple as possible. Can trains still be built to a very basic level? Have a generous section for bikes, buggies and disabled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Stadler GTW (which is little more than a more modern low-floor articulated, bogied Pacer) is exactly the train of which you speak.

 

[class387]

Unit 006 looked like it had just been refurbished .... Top job with window frames varnished.

Any pictures?

 

[Why]

Only these

 

[class387]

Only these

Looking quite smart to me!

 

[Chris M]

Keep them mechanically simple as possible. Can trains still be built to a very basic level? Have a generous section for bikes, buggies and disabled.

The RVAR requires there to be audio and visual announcements inside the train and visual ones on the outside, and I guess that CCTV would be highly desirable if not mandated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Neither of those things are expensive. Buses are now getting them with little more than a Hannover LED display on the outside and a tablet in a box on the driver's bulkhead.

 

[Howardh]

Only these

Oh yes - they look brand new now!! Q - why is the roof white? Thinking it soon starts to fade and look grotty and a darker colour wouldn't look so bad? Of course, for a good part of the year the Isle of Wight enjoys tropical heat, so I suppose it's good for cooling

 

[Bletchleyite]

It'll be heat. All London buses have white roofs as well.

 

[Howardh]

It'll be heat. All London buses have white roofs as well.

I live in Lancashire. What's "heat"??!

Do the IOW old tube trains have air-con now, or is the white roof and the windows open the air-con??

EDIT , just sat here now it looks like we have two suns. One in the sky and one refelcted brightly on the sodden roads. Really difficult to drive in (but it's the old story, even when it's sunny in Lancashire it's still raining)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I live in Lancashire. What's "heat"??!

Do the IOW old tube trains have air-con now, or is the white roof and the windows open the air-con??

EDIT , just sat here now it looks like we have two suns. One in the sky and one refelcted brightly on the sodden roads. Really difficult to drive in (but it's the old story, even when it's sunny in Lancashire it's still raining)

The latter.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Amazing that any part of the British national rail network still can be expected to use such rolling stock as exists and even more amazing is the seemingly felt acceptance of such in the 21st century by certain people as carrying on well into the future.

 

[Dougal2345]

Amazing that any part of the British national rail network still can be expected to use such rolling stock as exists and even more amazing is the seemingly felt acceptance of such in the 21st century by certain people as carrying on well into the future.

Well it might be bumpy and lack air conditioning, but at least it's fume-free and spacious, and thus greatly preferable to bus or diesel alternatives... If we're offered new EMUs, that would be great, but otherwise keeping this old stuff going for another 50 years is fine by me...

 

[Howardh]

Amazing that any part of the British national rail network still can be expected to use such rolling stock as exists and even more amazing is the seemingly felt acceptance of such in the 21st century by certain people as carrying on well into the future.

I think they are wonderful for short journeys, and far better than a pacer!! All they need is a toilet and space for wheelchairs/bikes and they'd look fine on any commuter route up here. New doesn't always mean better (look under "pacers replacing whatever went before")!
Mind you, in 20 years time pacers may be the highlight of a heritage's line stock, although I wouldn't be surprised if Northern aren't still running them.

 

[Why]

Well it might be bumpy and lack air conditioning, but at least it's fume-free and spacious, and thus greatly preferable to bus or diesel alternatives... If we're offered new EMUs, that would be great, but otherwise keeping this old stuff going for another 50 years is fine by me...

And me .... its lovely and will return!

 

[Chester1]

I think they are wonderful for short journeys, and far better than a pacer!! All they need is a toilet and space for wheelchairs/bikes and they'd look fine on any commuter route up here. New doesn't always mean better (look under "pacers replacing whatever went before")!
Mind you, in 20 years time pacers may be the highlight of a heritage's line stock, although I wouldn't be surprised if Northern aren't still running them.

This has been thoroughly proved false on many occasions but a minority of people refuse to accept they will actually go. Northern have 102 pacers but in the next 2 years they recieve 48 cascaded DMUs (excluding "Angel 12" staying with GWR), 55 new class 195 DMUs and 43 class 331 EMUs (minus 17 class 323s). Factoring in the greater capacity per unit it will be a significant increase in capacity.

Back on topic... what is the condition of the currents stocks shell? They now look good but how many years could they last for? Could the traction equipment be totally replaced but keep the cab and make the insides compliant for use after 31/12/2019?

 

[Why]

Apologise if seen before found this on you tube ..... can see the tunnel as walked by foot,

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well it might be bumpy and lack air conditioning, but at least it's fume-free and spacious, and thus greatly preferable to bus or diesel alternatives... If we're offered new EMUs, that would be great, but otherwise keeping this old stuff going for another 50 years is fine by me...

How often have you travelled on the services of Southern Vectis in recent times?