Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Bletchleyite]

BPGV?

 

[reddragon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_03#Burry_Port_&_Gwendraeth_Valley_Line

Burry Port & Gwendraeth Valley Line[edit]
Several examples were rebuilt with cut-down cabs for working on the Burry Port & Gwendraeth Valley Line, as there were several low bridges on the line that precluded the use of normal height locomotives.

The modified examples were nos. 03119, 03120, 03141, 03142, 03144, 03145, 03151, 03152 and late addition (ex-Bristol) 03382.[11] Their duties included shunting (for example at Burry Port), and hauling full coal trains down from the valley's pits. For this latter duty they sometimes worked triple-headed.

They were replaced by Class 08/9 locomotives, which were also rebuilt to a reduced height. Several cut-down locomotives have been preserved.

The Isle of Wight shunters, nos. 03079 and 03179, were also rebuilt with cut-down cabs, to enable them to pass through a low tunnel in Ryde.

 

[mattdickinson]

What was 4xx vs 5xx anyway? Was 4xx Southern Region third rail EMU and 5xx non-SR third rail EMU?

Not quite. 5xx was for non-SR DC EMUs, including the 1500V DC overhead units that served Hadfield and Glossop

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not quite. 5xx was for non-SR DC EMUs, including the 1500V DC overhead units that served Hadfield and Glossop

This grouping also included the British Rail Class 504 1200v DC EMU that ran between Bury and Manchester from 1959 to 1991 that had a unique side-contact "shoe" current collection system.

 

[A0wen]

Well the 5xx class also had the 508s which were originally allocated to the Southern region as well, so I don't think it's clear cut that 5xx was for non-Southern DC EMUs.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Well the 5xx class also had the 508s which were originally allocated to the Southern region as well, so I don't think it's clear cut that 5xx was for non-Southern DC EMUs.

They were built intended for Merseyrail from what I read - Southern just poached them for a bit

 

[krus_aragon]

They were replaced by Class 08/9 locomotives, which were also rebuilt to a reduced height. Several cut-down locomotives have been preserved.

Note that 08 898 was not one of those reduced in height, which resulted in the following when it was sent along the line regardless:

 

[CeeJ]

Note that 08 898 was not one of those reduced in height, which resulted in the following when it was sent along the line regardless:

Looks reduced in height to me!

 

[Helvellyn]

Always intended for Merseyrail. Just sent to the Southern as a stop-gap to allow early withdrawal of 4-SUB units on the South Western Division. I think the only change was building them as 4-cars but then the stock for the Southern became the 455 and a different style of unit.

Why the 455s were originally to be 510s I don't know unless the thinking was a squadron fleet of 210 DEMUs and going with 510 created a family?

 

[Chris125]

A couple of comments in this twitter thread worth noting - https://twitter.com/Woof1972/status/1049411919671689222

- It seems Adrian Shooter has confirmed that 230s are SWR's preferred solution in the latest Modern Railways magazine
- They can just about, with a speed restriction, fit through Ryde tunnel in it's current state

 

[swt_passenger]

A couple of comments in this twitter thread worth noting - https://twitter.com/Woof1972/status/1049411919671689222

- It seems Adrian Shooter has confirmed that 230s are SWR's preferred solution in the latest Modern Railways magazine

I did post this news from MR last week in this very thread, which is what kicked off the renewed discussions

 

[sprinterguy]

Note that 08 898 was not one of those reduced in height, which resulted in the following when it was sent along the line regardless:

I remember this photo, or one very much like it, being published in RAIL (Or possibly The Railway Magazine) sometime after incident: Thanks for tracking it down, I didn't think I'd get the chance for another wry chuckle at it.

 

[uxm]

What new rolling stock will the island line get?

 

[swt_passenger]

What new rolling stock will the island line get?

IEP add on order.

Or maybe 230s or some other D train variant, which is what the last weeks posts have been about...

 

[uxm]

IEP add on order.

Or maybe 230s or some other D train variant, which is what the last weeks posts have been about...

I'm pretty sure swr rejected the class 230 so I don't know it's probably a cascaded EMU

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm pretty sure swr rejected the class 230 so I don't know it's probably a cascaded EMU

SWR did not reject the Class 230. There is plenty of evidence upthread that it, in some form, is in fact their preferred option.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm pretty sure swr rejected the class 230 so I don't know it's probably a cascaded EMU

Have you actually read the recent pages of this thread?

 

[MarkyT]

I remember this photo, or one very much like it, being published in RAIL (Or possibly The Railway Magazine) sometime after incident: Thanks for tracking it down, I didn't think I'd get the chance for another wry chuckle at it.

I thought it was a rack-gronk with tilted bodywork and cab to keep the driver on the level when climbing.

...I'll get my coat!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I remember this photo, or one very much like it, being published in RAIL (Or possibly The Railway Magazine) sometime after incident: Thanks for tracking it down, I didn't think I'd get the chance for another wry chuckle at it.

It was Rail; Murray Brown commented that it was an italic 08...

 

[andyc20050]

Unit 008 also now has SWR/Island Line branding.

 

[Journeyman]

Always intended for Merseyrail. Just sent to the Southern as a stop-gap to allow early withdrawal of 4-SUB units on the South Western Division. I think the only change was building them as 4-cars but then the stock for the Southern became the 455 and a different style of unit.

Why the 455s were originally to be 510s I don't know unless the thinking was a squadron fleet of 210 DEMUs and going with 510 created a family?

I think the change was to fit in with conventions on SR class numbering - class 4x5 was for 4-car suburban units, and 4x6 for 2-car. So...

405 - 4-SUB
415 - 4-EPB
416 - 2-EPB
445 - 4-PEP
446 - 2-PEP
455 - no SR designation but fits in with above
456 - later 2-car version of 455
465 - Networker 4-car
466 - Networker 2-car

Probably someone realised that this was all much neater than 510, which created a mess with SR units in the London Midland DC unit range.

 

[Journeyman]

What new rolling stock will the island line get?

Class 442s.

 

[DarloRich]

was down there on Saturday - lovely, quaint little line. But by god those tube trains need to go. The roofs are peeling off and they ride like a ballast wagon.

Lovely visit to Brading station and signal box. They even had ale on!

 

[Journeyman]

was down there on Saturday - lovely, quaint little line. But by god those tube trains need to go. The roofs are peeling off and they ride like a ballast wagon.

Yeah, from an enthusiast perspective, Island Line is brilliant and a ride on the 38 Stock is great fun, but I agree, it's looking worse every time I visit and just about everything is falling to pieces. From an everyday transport perspective, it's absolutely hopeless.

 

[Dougal2345]

[...]it's looking worse every time I visit and just about everything is falling to pieces. From an everyday transport perspective, it's absolutely hopeless.

Not sure about that - however bumpy and battered it is, it's still ten times "Better Than A Bus".

And it's getting locals and tourists from A to B, in coaches that are almost like mini-observation cars, there are so many windows with so few narrow pillars (not a property that's shared by the 230s sadly).

 

[Journeyman]

Not sure about that - however bumpy and battered it is, it's still ten times "Better Than A Bus".

It's really not. It's faster than buses, but at least buses get you to your destination without feeling like they're about to fall to pieces. As a means of public transport, it's an absolute joke and we shouldn't be tolerating it being in such a mess. To the average normal (i.e. 99.9% of the population), it's a decrepit disgrace, and it urgently needs sorting.

And it's getting locals and tourists from A to B, in coaches that are almost like mini-observation cars, there are so many windows with so few narrow pillars (not a property that's shared by the 230s sadly).

Oh, come on. The windows on the 230s are massive. The idea of keeping 80-year-old rolling stock running just because it has better windows is ridiculous. The trains are completely knackered, the pool of spare parts is rapidly dwindling, the electrification equipment is very close to expiry and the track is in terrible condition. It needs a total rebuild to stay even remotely viable in the future.

 

[duffield]

...
The roofs are peeling off and they ride like a ballast wagon.
...

One of the sets had its roof repainted fairly recently. It's quite a contrast when you see it passing an un-repainted set side by side!

 

[A0wen]

Not sure about that - however bumpy and battered it is, it's still ten times "Better Than A Bus".

And it's getting locals and tourists from A to B, in coaches that are almost like mini-observation cars, there are so many windows with so few narrow pillars (not a property that's shared by the 230s sadly).

The current crop of buses on the IoW rides far better than the '38 stock does.

And as for the windows argument - given the 38 is tube size stock, it's not easy to see out of the windows on that - any sub-surface stock has much better visibility - even allowing for the pillars - and the 230s being based on the D78 stock will offer a much nicer travel environment.

 

[Dougal2345]

I'm not arguing with most of that - it's certainly worn, and needs investment.

However despite the rough ride, it still doesn't throw you around when it corners, the way a bus does, and doesn't repeatedly decellerate and accelerate every couple of minutes at road junctions and traffic lights. If you're typing on a tablet or 'phone, I'm guessing it'll still be easier to do on the 38s than bouncing around on a bus.

The point about the windows was just that a rather charming aspect of the current stock - that it offers close to 360 degree visibility of the pleasant landscape - will certainly go. Just look at the pillars on a 230 and then compare it to the almost continuous glass strip on the 38.

I hope the 230s offer a nicer travel environment otherwise though. But if they are diesel-powered, then probably not...

 

[Journeyman]

I'm not arguing with most of that - it's certainly worn, and needs investment.

However despite the rough ride, it still doesn't throw you around when it corners, the way a bus does, and doesn't repeatedly decellerate and accelerate every couple of minutes at road junctions and traffic lights. If you're typing on a tablet or 'phone, I'm guessing it'll still be easier to do on the 38s than bouncing around on a bus.

The ride on every single bus I've been on recently is better, and the seats more comfortable, than the 38s. You're clearly allowing a personal prejudice to influence your opinion. The 38 Stock is absolutely not fit for purpose. I agree trains are more comfortable than buses in many cases, but saying "80-year-old trains are fractionally better than modern buses" is a stupid argument for keeping 80-year-old trains.

I hope the 230s offer a nicer travel environment otherwise though. But if they are diesel-powered, then probably not...

It's already been stated over and over again that battery power is the most likely option.