Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Bletchleyite]

The IOWSR should also look at going as far to Newport as possible, in addition to trying to get to Ryde St John's.

If it did, a side benefit would be that, at some point, a Ryde to Newport DMU or battery MU service could be considered.

 

[hooverboy]

Will the life expired wooden sleepers and bullhead track be replaced along the entire 8 mile length?

i don't know about the entire track, that will ultimately be down to the inspectors/NR.

the line likely will be getting an upgrade sufficient enough to run 60mph in sections, and re-tamping/re aligning is pretty much certain.
Depends what NR have available from hand me down inventory I suppose.
some rail recently replaced from 100mph/express lines on the mainland will be adequate to fit on a much lower speed branch line such as this.
I wouldn't hold my breath on CWT(60mph is still ok on jointed), but as on a previous post, I think some welding of running and DC lines would get done.

 

[Meerkat]

Are there any benefits to Island Line of IOWSR extending to St Johns? If anything it would reduce revenue as the interchange would be a shorter trip from the ferry, and quite a few people might walk from the ferry to St Johns.
Not entirely sure what the benefits to IOWSR are - they have a decent length line and an interchange.

 

[Meerkat]

I wouldn't hold my breath on CWT(60mph is still ok on jointed), but as on a previous post, I think some welding of running and DC lines would get done.

From that engineers report linked earlier a lot of the problems are caused by a weak formation getting hammered at the rail joints - presumably that means that CWR might offer maintenance savings?

 

[hooverboy]

Are there any benefits to Island Line of IOWSR extending to St Johns? If anything it would reduce revenue as the interchange would be a shorter trip from the ferry, and quite a few people might walk from the ferry to St Johns.
Not entirely sure what the benefits to IOWSR are - they have a decent length line and an interchange.

If they both end up arriving/departing on seperate sides of the platform,then the interchange is a lot easier than at present.That should boost revenue for the steam railway if anything.

 

[hooverboy]

From that engineers report linked earlier a lot of the problems are caused by a weak formation getting hammered at the rail joints - presumably that means that CWR might offer maintenance savings?

I'm not a geologist,but if the ground is a bit soggy in those areas I'd think measures would be taken to make it a bit less "flexible"
CWR isn't going to help that much if the underlying groundwork is responsible for making the rails move excessively...in fact it might make it worse.

There's a balance to be had between utterly rigid(problem) and extremely bendy(also problem).metal isn't designed for either.
been a while since i did physics, but it's not an elastic substance(youngs modulus and all that IIRC)

 

[Mark J]

i don't know about the entire track, that will ultimately be down to the inspectors/NR.

the line likely will be getting an upgrade sufficient enough to run 60mph in sections, and re-tamping/re aligning is pretty much certain.
Depends what NR have available from hand me down inventory I suppose.
some rail recently replaced from 100mph/express lines on the mainland will be adequate to fit on a much lower speed branch line such as this.
I wouldn't hold my breath on CWT(60mph is still ok on jointed), but as on a previous post, I think some welding of running and DC lines would get done.

There is enough 'junk' dumped at the side of Railways (by NR workers) to replace the whole Island Line many times over.

Lengths of FB rail, concrete sleepers and tons of ballast I have seen just idlely lying next to parts of the railway, seemingly forgotten about. In some cases these 'assets' have been there for years.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Are there any benefits to Island Line of IOWSR extending to St Johns?

Meanwhile, the heritage sector is struggling to maintain and run what it has, and there are not millions of pounds and thousands of volunteer hours up for grabs for any extension. Perhaps a reality check is appropriate before everyone comes up with grand schemes that simply cannot happen.

 

[Mark J]

Meanwhile, the heritage sector is struggling to maintain and run what it has, and there are not millions of pounds and thousands of volunteer hours up for grabs for any extension. Perhaps a reality check is appropriate before everyone comes up with grand schemes that simply cannot happen.

Although it could work IF the Island Line ran services from Ryde to Newport Mon-Fri (and weekends heritage services don't run), with heritage services on all other weekends.

 

[Rick1984]

The section over Brading marshes is certainly the most lively. I actually nearly got bounced off seat once!

 

[Rick1984]

If they had been able to extend the Stream Railway to St. Johns they could've had a connecting circular heritage bus service provided by the bus museum.
Connect IOWSR, bus museum, Esplanade and top of Union Street

 

[hooverboy]

There is enough 'junk' dumped at the side of Railways (by NR workers) to replace the whole Island Line many times over.

Lengths of FB rail, concrete sleepers and tons of ballast I have seen just idlely lying next to parts of the railway, seemingly forgotten about. In some cases these 'assets' have been there for years.

might be good,might be junk. we don't know why it's lying at the side of a rail route(NR explanation anyone??)

I'm inclined to agree that there probably is enough "spare" stuff like that of good enough quality to completely replace island line if the manpower/willpower permits.
Sometimes it's just cheaper to buy as new than reprocess,unsightly though the stray rails are.

a bit of rust isn't that big a deal, but if it's been used and the metal is fatigued then at the very least it needs to be reprocessed before re-use.

 

[A0wen]

If it did, a side benefit would be that, at some point, a Ryde to Newport DMU or battery MU service could be considered.

Best put the crayons away.

The IoWSR is unlikely to get much closer to Newport - closest it will get is around the Cross Lane area which is a mile outside Newport town centre. And Ryde St Johns is a fair distance out of Ryde town centre.

No DMUs have ever operated on the island, so there would be all the cost of getting a unit there, staff training etc.

Retaining the 3rd rail makes it VERY unlikely the IoWSR will get to St Johns in any case.

The quickest bus between Ryde & Newport takes 35 mins - the train is unlikely to be any quicker.

Lastly, only 1 heritage railway has managed to run a regular 'non tourist' service - Swanage - and that has a park & ride next to it and is to alleviate traffic and parking problems at Swanage - that's not an issue in the same way for the IoW.

 

[341o2]

The steam railway have issued a statement on their website that the SWR T&C regarding extending to St Johns makes the project unviable

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The steam railway have issued a statement on their website that the SWR T&C regarding extending to St Johns makes the project unviable

Well, that should end one area of speculation on this thread.

 

[341o2]

https://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/news/ryde-st-johns-road-latest-news-363.aspx

Finally, South Western Railway advised the Isle of Wight Steam Railway of the costs which it would be required to pay to create the separation between the two railways and the associated infrastructure changes. These were significant and were neither financially acceptable nor sustainable. It was at this point when the Steam Railway withdrew from further discussions.

Peter Conway, Chairman of the Steam Railway said “we examined all options to return steam trains back into Ryde St John’s but, in the end, regulatory concerns and the costs involved made the project unsustainable. Our ambition remains to return steam hauled train to Ryde at some point in the future but it is unlikely to be within the term of the current South Western Railway franchise.”

 

[A0wen]

Well, that should end one area of speculation on this thread.

You'd like to think so, wouldn't you?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well the Yarmouth ferries are too small for HGVs, so I would imagine HGV traffic is split evenly between Soton and Cowes/Pompey and Fishbourne

In fact the W class ferries used on Lymington to Yarmouth have more room than the Portsmouth to Fishbourne vessels; the Wightlink website - screenshot below - shows that the W class have 10cm more vertical space. The width differences quoted is not relevant as all standard HGVs are 2.55m wide. The D Stock is 2.85m wide so would class as an abnormal load, but Wightlink can easily take that.

However, delivery of the new stock via Lymington - Yarmouth would not be practical as it would involve a much longer haul across the Island on roads that are mostly fairly narrow. There's also a particularly tight S curve half way between Yarmouth and Newport; it would be fun to see something the size of an Alleley's trailer unit negotiate that!

NB: One of the Yarmouth W class vessels works the Fishbourne route on a permanent basis.

 

[awsnews]

Noting the final part of your posting above, is it not the case that Vivarail are a totally financially owned project of Railroad Development Corporation of Pittsburgh and Adrian Shooter, because of his record in the railway industry, was appointed by them as a British-based managing director. Can you direct me to a link that will show how much of a financial percentage Adrian Shooter has in Vivarail as what you describe above as his investment.

Search Vivarail Ltd at Companies House (not sure what their policy is on linking but Google will point you in the right direction) and check the last Confirmation Statement and section for Persons with Significant Control.

 

[Rick1984]

That's interesting they have higher clearance then the newest vessel, MV Victoria of Wight, which is their largest ever vessel

 

[Surreytraveller]

Just turn the whole thing into a heritage line. The trains they run on it are older than a lot of the stuff on heritage lines anyway

 

[adamello]

That's interesting they have higher clearance then the newest vessel, MV Victoria of Wight, which is their largest ever vessel

What it may be is that they run a variety of vessels on the Portsmouth Route, the clearances shown are probably based on their oldest vessel (not necessarily the smallest), St. Faith, which has a central bulkhead on the vehicle deck. All the newer ones have large open deck space.

Edit:
As it says on the screenshot, bigger loads are accepted but you have to book over the phone to ensure capacity on the right ferry

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Just turn the whole thing into a heritage line. The trains they run on it are older than a lot of the stuff on heritage lines anyway

That was offered to the Isle of Wight steam railway but they didn’t want the responsibility/cost/liability of both taking on Ryde Pier but also the need of providing a regular service every day and everything which goes with it - the line isn’t just some heritage operation it does have daily commuters.

 

[Roast Veg]

Best put the crayons away.

The IoWSR is unlikely to get much closer to Newport - closest it will get is around the Cross Lane area which is a mile outside Newport town centre. And Ryde St Johns is a fair distance out of Ryde town centre.

No DMUs have ever operated on the island, so there would be all the cost of getting a unit there, staff training etc.

Retaining the 3rd rail makes it VERY unlikely the IoWSR will get to St Johns in any case.

The quickest bus between Ryde & Newport takes 35 mins - the train is unlikely to be any quicker.

Lastly, only 1 heritage railway has managed to run a regular 'non tourist' service - Swanage - and that has a park & ride next to it and is to alleviate traffic and parking problems at Swanage - that's not an issue in the same way for the IoW.

I could see holidaymakers staying at Sandown/Shanklin making day trips to Newport using the IoWSR over the bus despite the much longer journey, in much the same way that I'm sure they take a trip out on it now. Having something to do at the "end point" of a preserved railway can be a big draw.

 

[Rick1984]

What it may be is that they run a variety of vessels on the Portsmouth Route, the clearances shown are probably based on their oldest vessel

Cheers that's probably it

 

[67018]

Are there any benefits to Island Line of IOWSR extending to St Johns? If anything it would reduce revenue as the interchange would be a shorter trip from the ferry, and quite a few people might walk from the ferry to St Johns.
Not entirely sure what the benefits to IOWSR are - they have a decent length line and an interchange.

I very much doubt that anyone would fancy walking from the ferry to St Johns. It's well over a mile, and uphill.

Meanwhile, the heritage sector is struggling to maintain and run what it has, and there are not millions of pounds and thousands of volunteer hours up for grabs for any extension. Perhaps a reality check is appropriate before everyone comes up with grand schemes that simply cannot happen.

This is hardly a 'grand scheme' - it's been on the cards for a while and is a relatively short and simple extension using mostly existing infrastructure. However it sounds like it's been killed of for now by the conditions and costs SWR would impose.

I could see holidaymakers staying at Sandown/Shanklin making day trips to Newport using the IoWSR over the bus despite the much longer journey, in much the same way that I'm sure they take a trip out on it now. Having something to do at the "end point" of a preserved railway can be a big draw.

This, however, is much less realistic. Newport is hardly a major destination for holidaymakers in Sandown and Shanklin and as mentioned above getting anywhere near the middle of Newport would be expensive and pretty much new build.

 

[43055]

What it may be is that they run a variety of vessels on the Portsmouth Route, the clearances shown are probably based on their oldest vessel (not necessarily the smallest), St. Faith, which has a central bulkhead on the vehicle deck. All the newer ones have large open deck space.

Edit:
As it says on the screenshot, bigger loads are accepted but you have to book over the phone to ensure capacity on the right ferry

The Victoria of Wight has a similar design to St Faith where the stairs are in the centre of the ship.

 

[ElectroSoldier]

Are there any benefits to Island Line of IOWSR extending to St Johns? If anything it would reduce revenue as the interchange would be a shorter trip from the ferry, and quite a few people might walk from the ferry to St Johns.
Not entirely sure what the benefits to IOWSR are - they have a decent length line and an interchange.

The steam railway isnt ever really used as a passenger railway as it doesnt really for from anywhere to anywhere you want to go. If they extend it it would be the Wooton common end they extend and then only as far as the Racecourse.

As to a shorter trip it might look like a walk from the Ferry or Esplanade to St Johns but its actually one hell of a walk, you would get half way and regret it. Believe me, Ive done it a few times but only because I like a stones throw from St Johns station and then only because I couldnt get a taxi

 

[ElectroSoldier]

They dont have to use Wightlink or Redfunnel.
MHI Vestas use their own boats to transport heavy equipment to the island, such as those big cranes they use on their quay.

Im sure with a little conversation it could be arranged to use that to land the trains and transport them from there.

 

[Chester1]

I am not sure the island platform is wide enough for a lift etc. Using platform 1 only would be the best layout for Island Line.
The steam railway can build something new in the yard, maybe using the island platform’s canopy.

I think a basic glass lift from the bridge on St Johns Hill should fit.

You wouldn't want to reduce the Island Line to one platform, as if you go to trains every 20 minutes I imagine they would pass here

The cheapest solution would be turning platforms 1 and 2 into bay platforms and remove the footbridge. Platform 1 would probably need extending westwards to be sufficiently long for locos to run around long sets of carriages.

Are there any benefits to Island Line of IOWSR extending to St Johns? If anything it would reduce revenue as the interchange would be a shorter trip from the ferry, and quite a few people might walk from the ferry to St Johns.
Not entirely sure what the benefits to IOWSR are - they have a decent length line and an interchange.

Ryde St Johns has road access and is in a more useful location. Its an historic station that is part of the islands railway heritage, not a modern interchange built in the middle of nowhere. Smallbrook Junction was the best solution available but hopefully that will change.

If the IWSR can obtain external funding to segregate the line it would reduce operating costs of the Island Line for NR. It would single the line in a place where double track is not particularly useful and reduce a three platform station to one. As other members have said, its too far from the sea front to reduce the number of tourists using both lines.

This is hardly a 'grand scheme' - it's been on the cards for a while and is a relatively short and simple extension using mostly existing infrastructure. However it sounds like it's been killed of for now by the conditions and costs SWR would impose.

Yes its certainly not crayonista stuff. It looks like IWSR would like to revisit the plans after the current SWR franchise.