Island Line Upgrade

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Chris125, 25 Jan 2020.

  1. Tim M

    Tim M Member

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    Brading will require new signalling, signals, point machines and train absence detection (track circuits or axle counters). It might be sensible to use axle counters for the short single line sections to St. John’s and Sandown and eliminate tokenless block. Given the age of the signalling from 1960’s(?) maybe even resignal Sandown (and even Ryde St. John’s to Pier Head?) to the same standard. Modular signalling would seem ideal.
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2020
  2. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Not sure about the infrastructure side of things, but discussions between Vivarail and SWR about the purchase of D-Trains (in either third rail or battery hybrid form) have been going on since 2017-18.
     
  3. Tim_UK

    Tim_UK Member

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    The steam railway is not connected. Or at least wasn't when I was there last summer.
     
  4. DelW

    DelW Member

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    I don't think there has ever been a connection in the preservation era. However the headshunt is alongside the "main" line, and it might be possible to put in a temporary connection. I assume it would be unsignalled and only used under possession, but with only 10 vehicles to transfer that probably wouldn't be a problem.
    Getting low loaders to Haven Street must be feasible, given that IoWSR have moved the Ivatts and a Class 33 there on them.
     
  5. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    I thought someone reckoned that the lorry would go to Sandown yard?
     
  6. RichT54

    RichT54 Member

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  7. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    Resignalling without rationalisation or a plan to get the Steam Railway back into Ryde St Johns would be short-sighted - hopefully when this is considered again we'll know if there's any realistic chance of extensions, 20min service etc.

    NB the signalling at Sandown is only about 30 years old, when NSE removed the double track to Brading.

    Rolling Stock has been delivered to, and removed from, both St Johns (via crane in the car park) and the yard at Sandown - see this video of 483001 being delivered [7min].

    The question will be how and when - bogies on or off, any gauging issues before the Autumn closures, how to shunt them, do they remove 483s at the same time, the size (if necessary) of the crane and all the logistics of that... there's a lot to think through!
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2020
  8. hooverboy

    hooverboy Member

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    by the look of the video,does look like sandown would be a fairly quick/easy option.

    resignalling shouldn't be that big a deal.it's 8 miles of very very basic track circuits at them moment,being upgraded to still fairly basic,but 40 years more sophisticated than used to.
    no real need to re-invent the wheel here is there?. track circuits and signalling sufficient for district line running at 60mph since 1980 is perfectly adequate for the island line.Still quite a a substantial upgrade in fact.

    they do need to sort out the squelchy marshes bit
     
  9. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    I think the exciting bit might be getting a low loader from the ferry to Sandown - the roads aren’t great
     
  10. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    I would have hoped for an ERTMS-Regional trial, but in the end I suppose the layout is so simple that no trial would give meaningful results.
     
  11. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    If there was time for trials I would hope for automated operation with guards only, DLR style!
     
  12. Dunfanaghy Rd

    Dunfanaghy Rd Member

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    This is starting to read like 'mission creep' (known in some quarters as WIBN!). Does the budget cover any of these?
    Pat
     
  13. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    WIBN?
     
  14. bspahh

    bspahh Member

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    I think its Wouldn't It Be Nice
     
  15. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    It's a big enough deal that NR deferred resignalling a few years back and it seems to have frightened off SWR too, thwarting for now plans for the Steam Railway to reach St Johns.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jan 2020
  16. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    I've just come across the PIN, which gives more detail to prospective contractors: http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2019/W39/711590030

     
  17. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    Will TPWS cause any slowdowns, ie terminal approaches?
     
  18. JohnElliott

    JohnElliott Member

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    Obvious solution: Build a tunnel under the Solent and bring them in by rail :p
     
  19. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Funny that you mention the DLR, I've always thought that converting the Island Line over to a DLR Style operation would work rather well for it.

    Is there any rough plan given for Esplanade station yet? When I visited there last year, it had quite a run down feeling to it. Not helped by the adjacent second platform and track being long term out of use / rusty and becoming it's own little Vectis Rail garden.
     
  20. Kieran1990

    Kieran1990 Member

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    what are the plans for esplanade- it’s platform 2 being brought back into use or is it and the other pier track being left?
     
  21. DelW

    DelW Member

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    I imagine it's easier and cheaper to leave the second track in situ than to work out a method of removing it, bearing in mind that access along the pier is very restricted. Since there's no likelihood of the pier shuttle reappearing, there's no benefit in reinstating it, or the other platform at Esplanade.
     
  22. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    I've not seen any details made public yet but the Council have submitted a funding bid for improvements and SWR's community fund will be paying for some kind of cafe.
     
  23. AlbertBeale

    AlbertBeale Member

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    Is the loop at Brading so that a twice-an-hour service can be more evenly spaced than the current one which is almost 20mins/40mins?

    But I think someone said that with the new rolling stock, they'd be able to have 3 trains on the go at once and run a 20-minute service at busy times - in which case the existing double tracks (at Sandown, and between Smallbrook and St Johns Rd, must be in the right sort of place to enable that, given journey times, so you wouldn't want to remove the Sandown loop just because Brading was added. (I realise that when traffic is lighter, there are good reasons not to run 3ph instead of 2ph, so as to maintain the tight ferry connection. As I remember, when the train and ferry times match, they both arrive the pierhead almost simultaneously, swap passengers, and are both ready for the off in a matter of minutes.)
     
  24. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    Can't find any evidence one way or another but from my days at RT I recall there was some consideration given to installing so called 'Moorgate controls' approaching the buffer stops using the LU style mechanical train stops that were fitted to certain signals on the line as an alternative to TPWS in the early 2000s. I don't know if it ever happened though but it has a similar effect to TPWS buffer stop loops, enforcing a low speed approach or else an emergency stop.
     
  25. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    Correct.

    3tph should remain possible but there's no commitment and no obvious justification, it was rarely tried even in NSE days.
     
  26. satisnek

    satisnek Member

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    Why is a passing loop being installed at Brading and the loop at Sandown retained (4 turnouts) instead of redoubling from Sandown to Brading inclusive (2 turnouts)?
     
  27. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Less track and bridges to maintain (vs more points)?
    Avoids messing with Sandown?
    Possibly track has been slewed (don't think so) or cables laid?
     
  28. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    From that document:
    The point mechanism upgrade might be replacing the hydropneumatic self-acting trailable loop turnouts at Sandown, as used on RETB lines in Scotland and elsewhere. That might allow an increase for the run-in speed which is very low today. Would be handy for maintenance and spares to standardise on a particular model of point machine for the whole island. Time Division Muliplexor (TDM) is a telemetry system that can control and supervise a number of functions in a remote interlocking over a duplex channel. This would be carried over the new fibre optic IP network in the Telecomms works. 'Cots' means 'commercial off the shelf' rather than any specialist railway equipment.
     
  29. A0wen

    A0wen Established Member

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    The other place on the Island Line they *could* re-rail is Sandown looking at Google Earth - and that *may* be easier than trying to navigate Ryde.
     
  30. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    I'm not convinced anything larger than a van could negotiate the current road access into St John's depot, and it's no good for stock deliveries anyway as buildings block access from the car park to the nearest rails.
    stjohnsdepot.jpg
    Sandown is much better I agree. It's the track maintenance base I understand and has a siding which might need to be slewed away from the back of the platform a little, temporarily, for unloading.
    sandown.jpg
     

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