Island Line Upgrade updates

[hermit]

In addition to the extra train that would have been required in 1967, if Ventnor had remained open, as previously mentioned in this thread, it is my understanding that a further sub station would have also been required, and I assume that would have been a significant proportion of the budgeted £80k mentioned.

As also previously mentioned the estimated journey time of 38 minutes or so is not a particularly convenient timing. If the railway to Ventnor was open today and presumably a half hourly regular interval frequency was to be maintained, at least four extra Cl 484 units would be required. I assume in that case the trains would pass at Sandown.


I note the inconvenient location of the former main Ventnor station, and arguably the other Island stations are not in the most convenient locations either. Sandown being quite poor in this respect, but the secondary school is nearby, which together with residents local to the railway station, must be useful income generators for the railway. The key useful aspect of the Island line is it's convenient and relatively quick connections with the mainland via the Wightlink ferry with step free access, unlike the Hovercraft service at Ryde, which visitors from the mainland appreciate. These aspects offset the relatively poorer access issues to the centre of the main places served by the railway on the Island. With the closure of Ventnor station in 1966 did result in a significant turndown in business for the town, and in today speak is probably one of those left behind places. I am sure if the railway was reopened to Ventnor the town would gain extra business, but the key 64 dollar question is whether the significant cost is justified.

The numbers of schoolchildren travelling tested the capacity of the two-car trains severely - not just pupils travelling from Ryde or Shanklin to the school next to Sandown station, but also pupils travelling to Ryde, where the main school is within walking distance of St John’s. Any ‘normal‘ passengers using the trains then did not have a comfortable or quiet journey. The trains concerned could be identified in the timetable as times were shown in red, indicating that unlike all other journeys no bicycles could be carried .

 

[A0wen]

The numbers of schoolchildren travelling tested the capacity of the two-car trains severely - not just pupils travelling from Ryde or Shanklin to the school next to Sandown station, but also pupils travelling to Ryde, where the main school is within walking distance of St John’s. Any ‘normal‘ passengers using the trains then did not have a comfortable or quiet journey. The trains concerned could be identified in the timetable as times were shown in red, indicating that unlike all other journeys no bicycles could be carried .

The 484s should be better in that respect as they are full size trains so standing passengers shouldn't be as cramped as they were with the 483s.

At least the Island Line highlighted which trains would be busy so "normal" passengers could work around them. Not totally unreasonable that school children should use a train to get to school. And much as we'd all like a quiet comfortable journey, the nature of public transport means that won't always be possible.

 

[Mordac]

The 484s should be better in that respect as they are full size trains so standing passengers shouldn't be as cramped as they were with the 483s.

At least the Island Line highlighted which trains would be busy so "normal" passengers could work around them. Not totally unreasonable that school children should use a train to get to school. And much as we'd all like a quiet comfortable journey, the nature of public transport means that won't always be possible.

Not that different from all the school kids piling in West Coast expresses at Carlisle to get to the Grammar School in Penrith and the morning, and vice versa in the afternoon.

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that the topic of this thread is Island Line Upgrade.

Discussion should be confined to discussing that scheme.

Thanks

 

[Gloster]

A Fixed Distant, of the square board type, has appeared at the Pier Head end of the platform at Ryde Esplanade. Someone has probably just realised that they have (seemingly) been approaching a red (on the stops) without a warning. (Of course, the board might have been there for ages and I never noticed.)

 

[DelW]

I have a couple of photos taken in 2017, looking towards Pier Head from Esplanade platform, with no fixed distant visible.

I realise that standards should be complied with, but the risk of an Island Line driver departing from Esplanade with an up train, and not remembering the need to stop at Pier Head, does seem very small indeed. Driving down an over-sea pier of finite length must be quite an effective reminder.

 

[BS56]

I have a couple of photos taken in 2017, looking towards Pier Head from Esplanade platform, with no fixed distant visible.

I realise that standards should be complied with, but the risk of an Island Line driver departing from Esplanade with an up train, and not remembering the need to stop at Pier Head, does seem very small indeed. Driving down an over-sea pier of finite length must be quite an effective reminder.

There was a caution aspect towards the pier head . It was a single yellow on Ryde St. John's road up starter which put it about 1.5 miles from the buffer's. The story behind that is to do with cost but I will not dwell on that. Needless to say the yellow aspect will be replaced by green. Also the new fixed distant board is double sided it also applies towards the Esplanade new down starter.

 

[Chris125]

I have a couple of photos taken in 2017, looking towards Pier Head from Esplanade platform, with no fixed distant visible.

I realise that standards should be complied with, but the risk of an Island Line driver departing from Esplanade with an up train, and not remembering the need to stop at Pier Head, does seem very small indeed. Driving down an over-sea pier of finite length must be quite an effective reminder.

They've put one up on the approach to Shanklin too, anyone know when this kind of thing became standard on the mainland?

As for other changes, they've put up wooden paling along the back of the platform at Brading now - it was missing on the planning app but nice to see something appropriate, hopefully they'll use this instead of the green mesh they were planning on the foot crossing ramps too.

 

[pompeyfan]

Did the rumoured co-acting signal ever go in in the 4ft of the down line at Esplanade?

 

[Chris125]

Did the rumoured co-acting signal ever go in in the 4ft of the down line at Esplanade?

That remains a mystery, the hole in the track can still be seen on the webcam unchanged and they've not done anything with the bags of ballast(?) either.

More change is on the way though - the council are dusting off the decade-old plan to rebuild the rail and bus stations with £40m now available:

The Ryde Transport Interchange Project is back on the Isle of Wight council’s (IWC) Forward Plan, meaning a decision on moving forward with the scheme is due to be made by IWC at some point in the next three months.

As well as the former tram pier being restored for pedestrians and cyclists, the gateway area will see a total reconfiguration, including refurbished public toilets and “greatly enhanced” facilities including widened footways, new crossings and cycle routes.

A £10 million grant from the Government to carry out the works will be propped up with around £30 million coming from local transport partners.

 

[Gloster]

To my mind the question is: who are the ‘local transport partners’ who are going to cough up £30 million? Southern Vectis, Network Rail/Islandline and Hoverspeed are the obvious ones, but I can’t see them putting up £10 million each.

 

[DelW]

I'm probably in a minority (possibly of one) but I rather like the existing Esplanade building, which has a certain 1950s (?) charm. It wouldn't hurt if it had a bit of a tidy up of the platform area, and maybe removal of the disused down side remains, but replacement with a multi-million pound 2020s steel and glass building really wouldn't fit the area IMO. Plus I'm sure there are more pressing priorities in Ryde or elsewhere on the island.

 

[Chris125]

I'm probably in a minority (possibly of one) but I rather like the existing Esplanade building, which has a certain 1950s (?) charm. It wouldn't hurt if it had a bit of a tidy up of the platform area, and maybe removal of the disused down side remains, but replacement with a multi-million pound 2020s steel and glass building really wouldn't fit the area IMO. Plus I'm sure there are more pressing priorities in Ryde or elsewhere on the island.

Just looks like concrete block walls and flat roofs to me? The town side and where you wait for a bus is pretty depressing and very uninviting at night and out of season, nor does it work well when it's busy with lots of pinch-points. Network Rail even added some grim palisade fencing recently just to help with the aesthetics...

Plus I'm sure there are more pressing priorities in Ryde or elsewhere on the island.

For transport and infrastructure spending I really don't think there is tbh, it's the first impression after the pier for so many visitors and with the tramway pier becoming a promenade and SWR community funds for a Cafe there's a real opportunity; let's hope they get it right.

 

[hermit]

I'm probably in a minority (possibly of one) but I rather like the existing Esplanade building, which has a certain 1950s (?) charm. It wouldn't hurt if it had a bit of a tidy up of the platform area, and maybe removal of the disused down side remains, but replacement with a multi-million pound 2020s steel and glass building really wouldn't fit the area IMO. Plus I'm sure there are more pressing priorities in Ryde or elsewhere on the island.

I’m another one in your minority. I’ve never been persuaded of the case for an all-singing all-dancing new interchange, given that a high proportion of passengers don’t use it as such - they either just pass through it on the train, or drive past by car. The ambitious plans in the past have always struck me as a grand design looking for a justification, and wouldn’t greatly benefit anyone other than the architects and builders.
Having said that, the Esplanade could certainly do with some modest smartening up and modernisation.

 

[D6130]

I'm probably in a minority (possibly of one) but I rather like the existing Esplanade building, which has a certain 1950s (?) charm. It wouldn't hurt if it had a bit of a tidy up of the platform area, and maybe removal of the disused down side remains, but replacement with a multi-million pound 2020s steel and glass building really wouldn't fit the area IMO. Plus I'm sure there are more pressing priorities in Ryde or elsewhere on the island.

You're not in a minority of one....I fully agree. So that's at least three of us!

 

[Chris125]

I’m another one in your minority. I’ve never been persuaded of the case for an all-singing all-dancing new interchange, given that a high proportion of passengers don’t use it as such - they either just pass through it on the train, or drive past by car.

I'm pretty sure most people use it as a bus station, but with an improved train service, the decking of the old Tramway Pier and money from SWR for a cafe there's potential to make it somewhere people actually want to spend time - hardly the case now.

While there's certainly questions about what should replace it, thankfully I doubt there's the money or interest in the grand architectural statements previously thankfully. It's got to be better than this though... surely?


DSCN0108 by zedfive, on Flickr


Ryde Esplanade Station by James Dagger, on Flickr


Ryde Esplanade by DarloRich2009, on Flickr

 

[E759]

Esplanade fixed distant and Smallbrook Junction photos:

IMG_4671

Esplanade fixed distant

www.flickr.com

 

[Chris125]

Esplanade fixed distant and Smallbrook Junction photos:

It developed a distinct lean after it's first storm, a rethink might be needed...

 

[Stroud Valleys]

The 484 does fit through the tunnel. Webcam shows a unit at Ryde by the hovercraft

 

[Chris125]

No wonder the bridge removal at Skew Bridge near Lake has been such a palaver, look at what was necessary to get the road-rail crane into position - rather than trundle along the track from Sandown (or Shanklin), they removed the adjacent pedestrian crossing so it could become an access point.

Seems an odd way of doing things, weight or clearance issues perhaps?

https://www.facebook.com/beaverbridges/posts/10151383295919986

Island Ingenuity!
‘Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it!’
When a difficult job looks easy you know it been planned well
This weeks task for the team trackside Isle Of Wight:
- Enable access trackside
- Remove existing pedestrian crossing
- Supply and lay track mats
- Construct temporary stone RRAP
- Create crane pad trackside
- Break out and free ends of the bridge structure
- Lift out whole the bridge and transfer to staging point
- Secure ends of bridge and RRAP to prevent unauthorised access
- Split bridge into 3 sections
- Load out for full off site refurbishment
‘It’s not the load you carry that weighs you down, it’s the way you carry it’

 

[swt_passenger]

No wonder the bridge removal at Skew Bridge near Lake has been such a palaver, look at what was necessary to get the road-rail crane into position - rather than trundle along the track from Sandown (or Shanklin), they removed the adjacent pedestrian crossing so it could become an access point.

Seems an odd way of doing things, weight or clearance issues perhaps?

https://www.facebook.com/beaverbridges/posts/10151383295919986

Do you know why the bridge had to come out @Chris125?

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

"- Load out for full off site refurbishment" says it all.
Pat

 

[swt_passenger]

"- Load out for full off site refurbishment" says it all.
Pat

So it may not be directly related to the line upgrade at all? Just a good opportunity…

 

[DelW]

No wonder the bridge removal at Skew Bridge near Lake has been such a palaver, look at what was necessary to get the road-rail crane into position - rather than trundle along the track from Sandown (or Shanklin), they removed the adjacent pedestrian crossing so it could become an access point.

Seems an odd way of doing things, weight or clearance issues perhaps?

https://www.facebook.com/beaverbridges/posts/10151383295919986

Roadgoing cranes normally travel at 12t per axle, so that one would probably weigh 36t in travel mode. If it needed extra ballast for the lift, that could have had to be attached at the track access point before travelling on (by rail) to the bridge.

Either way, that might make it the heaviest vehicle to travel on Island Line rails since steam days, as the 03 diesel would only have weighed about 30t. Terriers were also under 30t but the O2s were over 48t.

So weight could have been an issue if bridges had to be crossed on the way. Also, sometimes it's easier to avoid the problem altogether than to find someone willing to sign off the move. (In my previous professional life I was occasionally asked to sign off heavy plant moves over old bridges with few or no as-built records, and it's not something that's easy to analyse with accuracy or assess with certainty. I worked on the basis of "would I be willing to stand underneath during the move?", and if the answer was "no", then it didn't get approved by me.)

 

[Chris125]

So weight could have been an issue if bridges had to be crossed on the way. Also, sometimes it's easier to avoid the problem altogether than to find someone willing to sign off the move. (In my previous professional life I was occasionally asked to sign off heavy plant moves over old bridges with few or no as-built records, and it's not something that's easy to analyse with accuracy or assess with certainty. I worked on the basis of "would I be willing to stand underneath during the move?", and if the answer was "no", then it didn't get approved by me.)

Makes sense, the bridge crossing Lake Hill is post-electrification and a reasonable span so perhaps someone had second thoughts - seems the original plan was cancelled at the last minute, the crane being seen in the yard at Sandown early in the upgrade when the lift was originally scheduled.

 

[hermit]

So it may not be directly related to the line upgrade at all? Just a good opportunity…

Yes, Island Roads took the opportunity of line closure to refurbish the Alresford Road footbridge further down the line as well. Now reopened and looking much smarter.

 

[Chris125]

More news on the 'smaller scale' Transport Interchange scheme: https://onthewight.com/ryde-interchange-chance-to-have-your-say-on-some-elements-of-the-project/

The main elements include:
• Remodelling and refurbishment of the Esplanade bus interchange to create a
better environment for bus users/pedestrians making it easier and safer for
buses to manoeuvre in and around the bus station and allowing services to exit
via George Street, operating more efficiently and reliably.
• Reinstatement of the pier tramway to provide a new separate ‘boardwalk’ facility
for pedestrians and cyclists.
• Refurbishment of the station buildings including new, fully accessible disabled
toilets, a new façade, remodelled / expanded concessions and access to the
boardwalk
• Improvement of cycling links to and through the interchange linking with the
existing cycleway to Puckpool in the east and Ladies Walk in the west.

Plans have also been submitted for the refurbishment of the Pier Tramway: https://onthewight.com/plans-tramwa...cated-cycle-and-pedestrian-walkway-submitted/

Now, Wightlink has submitted plans to the Isle of Wight Council to develop the tramway pier into a dedicated cycle and pedestrian walkway.

The new walkway and cycle track will link Ryde Esplanade, the pierhead and, via fastcat, Portsmouth Harbour Station, as well as securing the long-term survival of the structure.

Comments on the application, 21/01150/LBC, can be submitted until 16th July via the Isle of Wight Council’s planning register.

 

[Meerkat]

Is the tramway pier listed?
From seeing the state of it last year it’s half rust!

 

[Chris125]

Is the tramway pier listed?
From seeing the state of it last year it’s half rust!

Yep, Grade II - importantly though the cast iron piles are still in good condition.

 

[Meerkat]

Yep, Grade II - importantly though the cast iron piles are still in good condition.

Good good.
I know it’s impractical but shame the tramway isn’t used for vehicles so pedestrians can walk along the sea side with the old shelters rather than being in the middle between the traffic and the trains.