Italy photography

[alexdodds]

In July I travel to Italy for the first time and I was wondering how do I go about spotting at the big stations there Milan, Venice, Rome etc. Do I need platform tickets, normal ticket and are staff and police ok with rail enthusiasts there. Seen lots of Italian railway videos on Youtube and they look good so they must be ok.

 

[D6130]

Technically speaking, photography and videoing on FS/Trenitalia property (stations, yards, depots. etc.) is still illegal without a written permit obtained in advance....and I have been pulled-up for it a couple of times in the distant past. However, since the widespread introduction of smartphones, the railway police seem to have largely given-up trying to enforce that particular law. Provided that you stay in publicly-accessible areas such as on platforms, footbridges, etc. you shouldn't encounter many problems. If you are photographing and videoing trains and a railway police officer blows their whistle at you and waves a finger from side to side, stop immediately, acknowledge in a friendly fashion and put your camera/phone away for a short while. If in doubt, discretion is the better part of valour....so conceal yourself behind a building or pillar or similar while filming. You won't have any hassle from railway staff as they all think - quite rightly - that it's a stupid outdated law which isn't worth bothering about. Indeed some staff may come up to you and talk about your interest in railways if you can find a common language and you may find yourself being invited into a signalbox - if located on the platform - or another interesting railway office. There are no restrictions on photography or filming on the stations of Italian 'private' railways and you will will usually find the staff to be very friendly and amenable.

At large terminal stations such as Roma Termini, Milano Centrale, Torino Porta Nuova, Firenze SMN and Napoli Centrale there are staffed ticket barriers and you would need a valid travel ticket to be admitted to the platforms. In these cities the best photographic opportunies - certainly for capturing moving trains - are at the peripheral main line stations which are 'open'. (e.g. Milano Lambrate, Milano Rogoredo, Firenze Rifredi, Firenze Campo di Marte, Roma Tiburtina, etc.) Don't forget that tickets for Italian regional trains are only valid on the day of issue, must be validated in the green or yellow machines at or near the platform entrances and are valid for a maximum of four hours from the time of validation. However, break of journey is permitted within that four hour period on Trenitalia services....but not on most of the 'private' lines. InterCity and high speed trains have compulsory reservation, therefore tickets are train- and date-specific.

 

[rg177]

I've only been pulled once in the past five years and that was in Bergamo - I'd photographed the service I'd just alighted and had to walk back past the guard to get to the exit.

He asked what I was doing and seemed both interested but slightly bewildered - clearly he hadn't seen many photographing a well-graffitied E464 before!

That was with a proper camera. In the days of smartphones it's safe to say I've not encountered anyone who even seemed to notice nevermind care.

The railway police themselves, well when I visited last week, they were significantly more preoccupied with fare evaders and general anti-social behaviour. Very efficient at it, too...

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Stayed in Verona for a few days in 2019 with no bother about photography. No barriers but plenty of variety.

 

[StephenHunter]

Didn't Italy repeal that law requiring a permit in 2010?

 

[D6130]

Didn't Italy repeal that law requiring a permit in 2010?

Yes....and then promptly reinstated it again a couple of years later in the general anti-terrorism crackdown in the aftermath og 9/11.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Technically speaking, photography and videoing on FS/Trenitalia property (stations, yards, depots. etc.) is still illegal without a written permit obtained in advance

No it isn't, it's perfectly legal to photograph and film on FS/Trenitalia property as long as it's on public areas. The law (which was actually a decree / decreto-legge) that made photograph/filming illegal was abolished in 2010, and even up until then, it was hardly enforced (as a result of photograph/filming being allowed since 1965, then enforced by a circular (circolare) known as REM90).

Didn't Italy repeal that law requiring a permit in 2010?

That's correct, yes.

 

[StephenHunter]

No it isn't, it's perfectly legal to photograph and film on FS/Trenitalia property as long as it's on public areas. The law (which was actually a decree / decreto-legge) that made photograph/filming illegal was abolished in 2010, and even up until then, it was hardly enforced (as a result of photograph/filming being allowed since 1965, then enforced by a circular (circolare) known as REM90).

The decree was a Mussolini-era one.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

In July I travel to Italy for the first time and I was wondering how do I go about spotting at the big stations there Milan, Venice, Rome etc. Do I need platform tickets, normal ticket and are staff and police ok with rail enthusiasts there. Seen lots of Italian railway videos on Youtube and they look good so they must be ok.

Staff and police are fine with photography and filming, and all stations with the exception of busy terminal central stations (such as Roma Termini and Napoli Centrale) are unbarreried, so you're free to go to do trainspotting on the platform.

The decree was a Mussolini-era one.

Yes that's right, it was enacted in 1941.

Yes....and then promptly reinstated it again a couple of years later in the general anti-terrorism crackdown in the aftermath og 9/11.

I don't think I've heard of this. Can you post any evidence please?

 

[StephenHunter]

I don't think I've heard of this. Can you post any evidence please?

Especially as 2010 was nine years after 9/11.

 

[D6130]

I don't think I've heard of this. Can you post any evidence please?

I was told this by an Italian railwayman friend. However, I am happy to bow to your superior knowledge if you know differently. This is indeed good news and would explain why I have had no problems photographing and videoing trains in recent years.

 

[mister-sparky]

I was in Italy a couple of weeks ago, and did lots of spotting and photographing and stations of trains and bits and pieces. Nobody said a word or bothered me at all. This included at Milano Centrale, Bologna C, Napoli C etc

 

[citycat]

I got a mild warning not to film using my iphone by the railway police at Roma Termini, but that was back in 2018 so things may have changed. I think you just have to be discreet about it, or just take a look around to check that you are not under observation by staff or security before you take a photo.

Here in the Netherlands, you never see spotters, so I always feel a bit self concious if I walk to the end of the platform to take a photo or video of a departing train.

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...]At large terminal stations such as Roma Termini, Milano Centrale, Torino Porta Nuova, Firenze SMN and Napoli Centrale there are staffed ticket barriers and you would need a valid travel ticket to be admitted to the platforms. [...]

Torino Porta Nuova and Porta Susa are unbarriered (I was there in February 2023), free entry to the platforms.

But I had an encounter at Porta Nuova. There were Trenitalia guys doing a ticket inspection on the platform before boarding the train. I took a photo of the train in front of them, and the ticket inspector said "no no! no photos!"

But other than that incident, I didn't have problems at Porta Nuova. The train drivers and guards don't care.

Milano Centrale is barriered... but as you get close to the entry barrier, you'll see a small printed A4 sign saying "Free entry" in a few languages (again I was there in February 2023). The barriers open automatically when they detect a person. The exit barriers works in the same way. So I'm not sure what the purpose of the barrier is...

Milano Porta Garibaldi, the 2nd busiest railway station in Milan is unbarriered as well. If you time your visits properly, you will see TGVs there.

 

[alexdodds]

Torino Porta Nuova and Porta Susa are unbarriered (I was there in February 2023), free entry to the platforms.

But I had an encounter at Porta Nuova. There were Trenitalia guys doing a ticket inspection on the platform before boarding the train. I took a photo of the train in front of them, and the ticket inspector said "no no! no photos!"

But other than that incident, I didn't have problems at Porta Nuova. The train drivers and guards don't care.

Milano Centrale is barriered... but as you get close to the entry barrier, you'll see a small printed A4 sign saying "Free entry" in a few languages (again I was there in February 2023). The barriers open automatically when they detect a person. The exit barriers works in the same way. So I'm not sure what the purpose of the barrier is...

Milano Porta Garibaldi, the 2nd busiest railway station in Milan is unbarriered as well. If you time your visits properly, you will see TGVs there.

So do you need a ticket to get onto the platforms at Milano Centrale? In that case id just find the cheapest.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

So do you need a ticket to get onto the platforms at Milano Centrale? In that case id just find the cheapest.

Idk about Milano Centrale but you definetly need one for Roma Termini and Napoli Centrale.

 

[D6130]

Idk about Milano Centrale but you definetly need one for Roma Termini and Napoli Centrale.

Same at Milano Centrale, officially. However the degree of scrutiny of passengers' tickets and documents does seem to vary. If in doubt, you could buy a ticket to Milano Lambrate, which would cost very little....and maybe make the return journey anyway, as you would see quite a lot of interest en route, including the depot of Fondazione FSI - the heritage arm of FS, which preserves, restores, maintains and operates historic locomotives and rolling stock on the main line. In fact, you may as well continue to the next station - Milano Rogoredo - which sees a lot of freight passing through.

 

[boiledbeans2]

So do you need a ticket to get onto the platforms at Milano Centrale? In that case id just find the cheapest.

I did have a ticket but it was not checked the multiple times I passed through the station in Feb 2023.

There were police/security guards (?) sitting in front of the ticket barriers but they were not checking tickets. They seemed to be answering questions from the public instead.

The ticket I had was a one day zone 1-3 ATM ticket for 7.60 Euros, something like a London Travelcard.

You can consider purchasing that as well. Unlimited rides within the inner 3 zones on the trains, metro, trams and buses.

The trams are worth riding. The oldest ones still in operation were built in the 1920s.

ATM Class 1500 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Another suggestion is to visit Genoa, an easy day trip from Milan or Turin.

Currently, all the funiculars and elevators are free in Genoa as part of a trial. The Genoa metro is free off-peak only.

My favourite ride in Genoa was this elevator:

Ascensore Castello d'Albertis-Montegalletto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It initially travels horizontally on rails like a train, then starts travelling vertically like a lift.

I rode in 8 times consecutively since it was free. 2 ups and 2 downs on one elevator, and another 2 ups and 2 downs on the other elevator (There are 2 elevators side by side which share the horizontal track, but split into 2 vertical shafts).

 

[Iskra]

I got a mild warning not to film using my iphone by the railway police at Roma Termini, but that was back in 2018 so things may have changed. I think you just have to be discreet about it, or just take a look around to check that you are not under observation by staff or security before you take a photo.

Here in the Netherlands, you never see spotters, so I always feel a bit self concious if I walk to the end of the platform to take a photo or video of a departing train.

Is it possible that they were upset that you were filming them (the police) rather than the railway?

I've never had a problem photographing or filming anywhere in Italy, including Milano Centrale and most rail staff seem happy that someone is taking an interest in their work/railways/heritage. The loaders of the train ferry even encouraged me to film and showed me the most interesting bit of the loading so I could film it.

 

[D6130]

I took photos and videos of trains at both Milano Centrale and Firenze SMN today without any problems. The entrance gates at MIC were open and unattended and the side entrance (platform 16) at FIM was staffed by two members of staff and a security officer, but they were more interested in chatting and joking amongst themselves than checking tickets. The driver of D445 1138 gave me a couple of toots on the horn and a friendly wave when he spotted me videoing his 17 55 departure to Borgo San Lorenzo.

 

[yeti]

I was in Gallipoli (Puglia) in October. I asked to photograph two abandoned diesel locomotives yards from the platform. I was told no and directed to the stationmaster. He politely but firmly said no as well. I have a suspicion managers might be embarrassed by the quantity of locos, dmus and rolling stock abandoned at stations across Puglia. I did actually photograph them from the terrace of where I was staying.

Here is the photo at

 

[D6130]

I was in Gallipoli (Puglia) in October. I asked to photograph two abandoned diesel locomotives yards from the platform. I was told no and directed to the stationmaster. He politely but firmly said no as well. I have a suspicion managers might be embarrassed by the quantity of locos, dmus and rolling stock abandoned at stations across Puglia. I did actually photograph them from the terrace of where I was staying.

Here is the photo at

I have never had any issues with photography on the FSE network in Puglia or, for that matter, any other 'private' railways in Italy. I wonder whether the capostazione thought that you were asking if you could walk off the end of the platform to photograph the locos close-up?

 

[yeti]

You might have a point. I realised this at the time and tried to tell the capostaziune that I would stay on the platform. My Italian is very limited so it is possible.
As you have knowledge of the Puglia railways have you any idea why they abandon trains at any spare sidings? Some look like they have not moved in years and will have seized up. Presumably you then have to cut them up on site.

 

[D6130]

You might have a point. I realised this at the time and tried to tell the capostaziune that I would stay on the platform. My Italian is very limited so it is possible.
As you have knowledge of the Puglia railways have you any idea why they abandon trains at any spare sidings? Some look like they have not moved in years and will have seized up. Presumably you then have to cut them up on site.

FSE, which is now managed by FS since its bankruptcy a few years ago, has recently had fairly large investment in new stock - making most of the old locos, coaches and railcars redundant. The bureaucracy involved in scrapping anything publicly-owned usually results in lengthy periods of storage for redundant assets in any unused sidings which can be found around the appropriate network. This applies to all railway networks in Italy, including the so-called "private" lines which - when not taken over by FS (i.e. the state) due to bankruptcy (e.g. FSE & FCU) are owned by consortia of regional and provincial local authorities. There's a poignant video on YouTube showing a long-abandoned carriage in a siding at one of the junctions on the FSE network (Maglie?) which has become home to a cat and her kittens! I'll see if I can find a link to it. A few years ago I was passing through Crotone on the then daily Reggio Calabria-Taranto two coach diesel-hauled InterCity and noticed that a large number of withdrawn loco-hauled coaches in the yard had been squatted by homeless African immigrants....but now both the coaches and their occupants have disappeared.

 

[boiledbeans2]

On the approach to Milano Centrale from Torino (between Rho Fiera & Milano Centrale if I recall), on the left side of your train, there is a broken carriage or railcar in one of the depots.

Literally broken!
The ends of the carriage are on bogies as usual, but the centre of the carriage has collapsed onto the track.

 

[urbophile]

My favourite ride in Genoa was this elevator:

Ascensore Castello d'Albertis-Montegalletto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It initially travels horizontally on rails like a train, then starts travelling vertically like a lift.

I rode in 8 times consecutively since it was free. 2 ups and 2 downs on one elevator, and another 2 ups and 2 downs on the other elevator (There are 2 elevators side by side which share the horizontal track, but split into 2 vertical shafts).

That is just amazing! And if like me you are a fan of neo-gothic fantasy architecture, Castello d'Albertis is well worth a visit too.

I did't know about the free lifts etc in Genova: I wonder how long the experiment is for?

The wonderful Casella railway which heads up into the mountains is currently closed (again) for infrastructure repairs, but it re-opens in June I believe.

I too have been shouted at in Roma Termini for photographing, not trains but the architecture of the concourse. He didn't insist I deleted it though.

 

[csinc]

It’s fine to photo trains. A lot of Italian train spotters out there. In Milano check out Milano Rogoredo, it’s a good spot for passenger and cargo and no one will bother you. Genova is quite a Trainspotting hub if you wanted to head that way.

 

[boiledbeans2]

That is just amazing! And if like me you are a fan of neo-gothic fantasy architecture, Castello d'Albertis is well worth a visit too.

I did't know about the free lifts etc in Genova: I wonder how long the experiment is for?

The wonderful Casella railway which heads up into the mountains is currently closed (again) for infrastructure repairs, but it re-opens in June I believe.

I too have been shouted at in Roma Termini for photographing, not trains but the architecture of the concourse. He didn't insist I deleted it though.

Glad you liked the horizontal+vertical lift too!

I checked out Castello d'Albertis online beforehand, but it wasn't free, so I just decided to ride the free trains instead.

Yes, the Genova funiculars/life had been free from December 2021 until March 2022, see here:

Genoa makes part of its public transit free to ride on | TheMayor.EU

Genoa is the first big Italian city to implement a trial phase for free public transport. All vertical mobility services, as well as the city subway line, will be free of charge for commuters until 31..

www.themayor.eu

Then in March 2022, they extended the trial for another 4 months, and then they extended it again and again.
By doing it this way, I guess they can withdraw it at short notice if they want to.

Yes, my initial purpose of going to Genova in Feb 2023 was actually to ride the Casella railway, but as you mentioned it was closed for maintenance, so I changed my plans and rode the free funiculars, lifts and metro instead!

I liked the Zecca-Righi funicular as well (but not as much as the horizontal+vertical lift). The 1st half of the funicular is initially in a tunnel, then emerges into daylight in the 2nd half. The driver's cab is separated from the passenger's cabin with big glass windows, so you can see what's happening ahead.

Zecca–Righi funicular - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Genova is quite a Trainspotting hub if you wanted to head that way.

For the funiculars, you will see a lot of tourists also taking photos.

 

[citycat]

Is it possible that they were upset that you were filming them (the police) rather than the railway?

I've never had a problem photographing or filming anywhere in Italy, including Milano Centrale and most rail staff seem happy that someone is taking an interest in their work/railways/heritage. The loaders of the train ferry even encouraged me to film and showed me the most interesting bit of the loading so I could film it.

Sorry, just seen this post.

I was not filming the railway police. I was filming the concourse in general and a couple of loco hauled arrivals coming in. I didn’t even notice them.

They just gave me a mild warning that photography wasn’t possible in the station. That was back in 2018 so things might have changed.

 

[AdamWW]

I've never had a problem photographing or filming anywhere in Italy, including Milano Centrale and most rail staff seem happy that someone is taking an interest in their work/railways/heritage. The loaders of the train ferry even encouraged me to film and showed me the most interesting bit of the loading so I could film it.

Interesting.

A few days ago I was told to stop taking photos on the train deck, and again at Villa San Giovanni when I was taking a photo of the locomotive coming in to couple onto the back of the train.

I must have just been unlucky - I don't think I was doing anything to cause offence like taking close-ups of individual people.

Fortunately in both cases I'd taken most of the photographs I wanted - I would have been very annoyed if I'd been told to stop earlier on.

On another occasion I thought a member of staff was staring at me as I took photos - but when I turned round I just got a big smile.