Italy-Switzerland ticketing

[MarcVD]

I'm organizing a railway tour of two days for one of my sons and his wife, end of January. The idea is to fly between Brussels and Zurich and back (no enough time for full length train travel) and from Zurich, travel to Milano over the Bernina line, and come back the day after via the Gotthard summit line.

Thanks to the seat61 site, I have all the details I need for the southwards leg of the journey. But apparently, coming back is another affair. There is a train from Milano Centrale to Erstfeld, leaving around 9h45, and from there, it's a very easy connection to Zurich. But how to get a price and purchase a ticket ? I have tried the german, swiss, and italian railway web sites without success. Can anyone provide guidance ?

 

[Mag_seven]

If I put a date of Wed 29.01.20 into the SBB site it tells me that the 09.10 departure from Milan is a through train to Zurich.

EDIT: missed the point that the OP wants to travel at 09.45 not 09.10

 

[lemonic]

Can't promise it's the cheapest option, but if you book Milano to Chiasso on Trenitalia and Chiasso to Erstfeld on SBB then it seems to work for the 09:43 train. Will also let you take advantage of SBB Supersaver (Advance) tickets on the Swiss part of the journey.

 

[AlbertBeale]

In London, at least, the Swiss Tourist Office has a Swiss Railways desk, where you can go in - in person - and sort out details of rail journeys in Switzerland (and adjoining countries) and buy tickets. They're obviously experts at Swiss tickets, but I've found it's helpful to know what you want in advance if your purchase includes tickets that don't touch Switzerland (research via Seat 61 and ERT, of course).

I've used them a couple of times in recent years - it's good that there's still somewhere in London you can buy (at least some) international tickets "over the counter". Almost like the old days of publicly-owned national rail networks, who all sold each other's tickets, when you could walk into a station in one country and buy tickets or reservations for the other side of the continent, with no mark-up, since they were all co-operating public services. No wonder some people wish Corbyn had won the election!

 

[MarcVD]

If I put a date of Wed 29.01.20 into the SBB site it tells me that the 09.10 departure from Milan is a through train to Zurich.

EDIT: missed the point that the OP wants to travel at 09.45 not 09.10

Yeah, that one probably goes through the base tunnel, not through the summit line. This tunnel is certainly a good time saver for regular users but completely spoils the journey if the objective is the scenery...

I will give a go at the split ticketing suggestion proposed above...

I could probably just walk in the SNCB international counter at Bruxelles Midi and obtain both price info and tickets there, but what I will get is CIV ticketing which is usually way more expensive than the saver deals available locally.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yeah, that one probably goes through the base tunnel, not through the summit line. This tunnel is certainly a good time saver for regular users but completely spoils the journey if the objective is the scenery...

I will give a go at the split ticketing suggestion proposed above...

I could probably just walk in the SNCB international counter at Bruxelles Midi and obtain both price info and tickets there, but what I will get is CIV ticketing which is usually way more expensive than the saver deals available locally.

It should be obvious which connections go through the (modern, efficient, boring) base tunnel, and which go via the lovely old line, from the transit time. Or, if you look at a timetable which gives intermediate stops (such as the ERT, or the online one which the eurorailways.com site uses [which is a Belgian one, isn't it?]) that makes it obvious. Also, when I travelled that route a year or two back, virtually all connections via the old line entailed a change of trains somewhere between Lugano and Zurich.

 

[30907]

It should be obvious which connections go through the (modern, efficient, boring) base tunnel, and which go via the lovely old line, from the transit time. Or, if you look at a timetable which gives intermediate stops (such as the ERT, or the online one which the eurorailways.com site uses [which is a Belgian one, isn't it?]) that makes it obvious. Also, when I travelled that route a year or two back, virtually all connections via the old line entailed a change of trains somewhere between Lugano and Zurich.

The new timetable appears to provide an hourly international Regional Express from Milan to Erstfeld, linking together existing services.
The fare on the Italian side is a walkup (EUR 14 to Lugano on Trenord, Chiasso presumably cheaper) so little point in advance booking.

 

[blackfive460]

I will give a go at the split ticketing suggestion proposed above...

While I haven't looked to see what fares you are likely to get, you might find that a three day Global Interrail pass (currently with 10% off the normal price) could offer a reasonable and flexible alternative even if it only gets two days use.

 

[MarcVD]

OK, got it sorted out, and taught that since I got some brilliant ideas from here, I should share experience for any future possibly interested traveller.

First of all, the journey southwards.

Prices for the Bernina express purchased in Switzerland are expensive. But there is a trick to obtain a much better price by purchasing a trip that starts from Germany, in order to take advantage of the Europe supersaver prices offered by DB. Mark Smith on seat61.com has all the gory details. So I got tickets from Singen (in Germany, not far from the swiss border) to Tirano, for about 50% of the price asked from within Switzerland. Of course, the first two legs of the journey, from Singen to Zurich to Chur, will not be used. Those tickets cannot be printed at home, I will get them in the mail. Total price for 2 people, mailing charge included : € 57,70, instead of 63 per person if purchased in Switzerland. Not bad... From Tirano to Milano, I also purchased in advance because the transfer time is only 20 minutes, and there might be a queue at the ticket machine. From the trenitalia web site, € 11.50 for two tickets from Tirano to Milano Centrale.

Journey northwards, complicated because no site seems to be able to sell the whole journey, for the trains that I wanted to use, via the Gotthard summit line. So, found the right train (if it stops at Airolo, it means it doesn't go through the base tunnel) from the DB web site, then purchased tickets from Milano to Chiasso on this train from the trenitalia web site (€ 11 for two) and then proceeded to purchase Chiasso to Zurich. A bit surprised by the price (not the same as in Italy, we're in Switzerland, after all!), I taught I could use the same trick as for the previous day. So, went back to bahn.de, asked for a Chiasso to Singen via Erstfeld and Zurich connection, and got again a Europe Supersaver for € 40 per person instead of the € 60 asked by sbb.ch. This time I got print at home tickets.

Result, 160 € for a wonderful double crossing of the alps, for two people. Not bad. Thank you, Mark, and also Lemonic for his suggestion to split the ticket.

Just a final warning : the sbb.ch website is trying to cheat by first suggesting prices that are available only if a price reduction scheme applies. Only when it comes to listing the traveller names, you get the option to specify whether a reduction scheme applies for you. And if you tick the "no reduction" box, the the displayed price doubles... A bit unfair in my opinion, a bit like the airlines sites that add all taxes and fees to the price just at the last moment before committing to pay.

 

[AlbertBeale]

.....
.....
Just a final warning : the sbb.ch website is trying to cheat by first suggesting prices that are available only if a price reduction scheme applies. Only when it comes to listing the traveller names, you get the option to specify whether a reduction scheme applies for you. And if you tick the "no reduction" box, the the displayed price doubles... A bit unfair in my opinion, a bit like the airlines sites that add all taxes and fees to the price just at the last moment before committing to pay.

Yes - that's the one thing I found confusing (and, when I understood it, annoying) about getting tickets from the Swiss Railways website.

And thanks for confirming that Seat61 does the business as usual!

 

[Alfonso]

Yes - that's the one thing I found confusing (and, when I understood it, annoying) about getting tickets from the Swiss Railways website.

And thanks for confirming that Seat61 does the business as usual!

I don't think SBB is trying to be sneaky, as almost everyone travelling on Swiss railways will have a half price card of some sort, with both the annual and one-month visitor ones paying for themselves almost instantly

 

[mikey9]

With time to kill at Saas Im Pratigau (near Klosters) last summer - I tried the on station ticket machine (very easy to use) to see what a return to Tirano would have cost us (2 adults and 2 children) - 332 Euro or 366 CHF. Glad we were on a Family Inter-rail or Switzerland would have blown the budget!

 

[Alfonso]

With time to kill at Saas Im Pratigau (near Klosters) last summer - I tried the on station ticket machine (very easy to use) to see what a return to Tirano would have cost us (2 adults and 2 children) - 332 Euro or 366 CHF. Glad we were on a Family Inter-rail or Switzerland would have blown the budget!

Switzerland is very expensive if only there for a day or two. Any longer and it's worth getting a national or regional travel.pass of some sort, or a half price card. Kids travel free with a family ticket (about 30 francs per should or free with a pass) so most people would pay half price times two for the adults and nothing for the kids for this journey

 

[radamfi]

You can get day tickets for the entire Swiss public transport network for as little as 52 CHF (or 29 CHF if you have a Half Fare Card).

https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-a...tzerland/1-day-travelpass/saver-day-pass.html

 

[axlecounter]

Journey northwards, complicated because no site seems to be able to sell the whole journey, for the trains that I wanted to use, via the Gotthard summit line. So, found the right train (if it stops at Airolo, it means it doesn't go through the base tunnel) from the DB web site, then purchased tickets from Milano to Chiasso on this train from the trenitalia web site (€ 11 for two) and then proceeded to purchase Chiasso to Zurich. A bit surprised by the price (not the same as in Italy, we're in Switzerland, after all!), I taught I could use the same trick as for the previous day. So, went back to bahn.de, asked for a Chiasso to Singen via Erstfeld and Zurich connection, and got again a Europe Supersaver for € 40 per person instead of the € 60 asked by sbb.ch. This time I got print at home tickets.

I suppose you’re aware that your 11€ Chiasso-Milano is a regional trains-only ticket? So, in fact any train, except ECs.

 

[dutchflyer]

the difference is:
those DB-tix are ONLY valid in the booked trains (zugbindung), and from recent discussions on DSO it was found this now also applies to the total swiss routing. Whereas the SBB/swisstravel tix are valid on all the trains in the day. Normally the zugbindung only applies In DE and also on the sectors on IC/ICE on diect trains to/fro DE on the total length as given on the ticket-for the rest its free choice out of DE.
I highly doubt if the 5,75 fare (as you say it was 11,50 for the 2) all the way from Tirano to Milano is correct, seeing that Mil-Chi is 5,50 (which appears indeed normal for IT-regionale) and its more as 2x the distance. Or is it simply a glitch and its 11,50 for 1, that could well be possible.

 

[MarcVD]

Well I have all tickets printed with names on them so there is little room left for mistakes. And yes I know that the Milano to Chiasso tickets are for regional trains but this seems to be the correct status for the Milano to Ertsfeld trains that we wanted to use. It's the price that the trenitalia web site proposed.

 

[axlecounter]

Well I have all tickets printed with names on them so there is little room left for mistakes. And yes I know that the Milano to Chiasso tickets are for regional trains but this seems to be the correct status for the Milano to Ertsfeld trains that we wanted to use. It's the price that the trenitalia web site proposed.

I said it just in case you didn’t notice and tried to travel on a EC. Yes it is the correct status. They are RE (RegioExpress) trains, included in the regional trains ticketing. In fact as I said any train on the Milano-Chiasso line that isn’t an EC is a regional train.

 

[Oscar]

the difference is:
those DB-tix are ONLY valid in the booked trains (Zugbindung), and from recent discussions on DSO it was found this now also applies to the total swiss routing. Whereas the SBB/swisstravel tix are valid on all the trains in the day. Normally the Zugbindung only applies In DE and also on the sectors on IC/ICE on direct trains to/from DE on the total length as given on the ticket-for the rest its free choice out of DE.

SBB also offers discounted tickets which are valid on the booked train only (Sparbillette), but we don't know whether the tickets the OP considered buying were Sparbillette or flexible tickets.

Through tickets from Milano to Canton Ticino using regional trains can be bought here (at least in theory, the website seems to struggle with some journeys). But Milano to Uri (Canton Uri) presumably can't be bought online.
http://store.trenord.it/biglietti-transfrontalieri-lombardia-svizzera-2

Tirano-Milano costs 11.50 EUR per person (source: Trenord website, service is run by Trenord).

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Almost like the old days of publicly-owned national rail networks, who all sold each other's tickets, when you could walk into a station in one country and buy tickets or reservations for the other side of the continent, with no mark-up, since they were all co-operating public services.

There was a mark up - we were supposed to add on a cover charge of, I think 35p or 50p, depending on the cost of the ticket. We had ticket stock for these charges which would be stapled behind the travel ticket(s) at the rear of the coupon folder.

 

[MarcVD]

SBB also offers discounted tickets which are valid on the booked train only (Sparbillette), but we don't know whether the tickets the OP considered buying were Sparbillette or flexible tickets.

When I looked on the SBB web site, I did not see any offer like that. Either it does not exist, or the web site hides it too well.

 

[AlbertBeale]

There was a mark up - we were supposed to add on a cover charge of, I think 35p or 50p, depending on the cost of the ticket. We had ticket stock for these charges which would be stapled behind the travel ticket(s) at the rear of the coupon folder.

Aha - well, you might be right about what was supposed to happen. Though I don't remember ever paying for an extra cover charge coupon in the days when I would pop round to Kings Cross station to buy, eg, a dozen returns to Trieste or whatever [true example]. I wonder whether I still have any old international tickets from a quarter of a century ago at the bottom of a box somewhere - more to the point at the bottom of a box I can identify! - to check my memory....

But even if there was a nominal mark-up, the fact that you could just walk in and do that, with no hassle about needing to say what colour train you wanted to travel on [nor even the exact route if you didn't want reservations on a particular train], was rather wonderful. And (dare I say it?) more like how it ought to be.

 

[Oscar]

When I looked on the SBB web site, I did not see any offer like that. Either it does not exist, or the web site hides it too well.

There is information on Sparbillette (translated as 'supersaver fares') here. When you find an itinerary in the journey planner, click to see the ticketing options and there is information on the availability and price of such tickets.