ITV Trouble on the tracks

[Stigy]

I guess if you just chuck them off at the next station they disappear, but if you ring ahead BTP may be able to meet the train later in its journey and the person may end up being brought to book for whatever they are carrying. I imagine also if you tell them to leave the train at X and they are still on board at later station Y, that would constitute intent to avoid payment.

It still wouldn’t necessarily constitute intent to avoid payment if the TOC can’t reasonably disprove the story that he had a ticket in the first place (it’s a bit like a no money/no ticket not automatically being proof of intent to avoid payment, contrary to a what a lot of revenue staff believe). This passenger was cooperating to an extent, so the TM could quite easily have taken a harder line with him in the first place to at least test the water.

I also don’t like it when on board staff take the approach of “get off at the next station, go and see the barrier staff and it’ll be fine, just get the next train” or words to that effect. It’s passing the buck and potentially causing problems for other staff when they do their job properly and don’t left him travel any further.

 

[Antman]

It still wouldn’t necessarily constitute intent to avoid payment if the TOC can’t reasonably disprove the story that he had a ticket in the first place (it’s a bit like a no money/no ticket not automatically being proof of intent to avoid payment, contrary to a what a lot of revenue staff believe). This passenger was cooperating to an extent, so the TM could quite easily have taken a harder line with him in the first place to at least test the water.

I also don’t like it when on board staff take the approach of “get off at the next station, go and see the barrier staff and it’ll be fine, just get the next train” or words to that effect. It’s passing the buck and potentially causing problems for other staff when they do their job properly and don’t left him travel any further.

I've seen that the other way round as well, station staff just wanting to get disruptive passengers onto a train where they become somebody else's problem.

 

[theironroad]

I've seen that the other way round as well, station staff just wanting to get disruptive passengers onto a train where they become somebody else's problem.

That's often both the civil and btp's method of operation. Get them on a train into another force's area or division, with little regard for the hassle the person is going to cause to the train crew en route.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I've seen that the other way round as well, station staff just wanting to get disruptive passengers onto a train where they become somebody else's problem.

And the BTP. "He's no problem lad,just take him home to the next station". Whereby 'lad' then throws up on the train etc.

 

[RHolmes]

At the least the TM should have removed the guy from 1st immediately and made sure he left at Coventry. Agree it sends a very poor message, he should probably have kept his mouth shut as well about criticising his colleagues who take a firmer approach, though there is a fine line between delaying the train and enforcing tickets.

Surprised the TM didn't offer to make him a cup of tea and some biscuits as well....

I guess if you just chuck them off at the next station they disappear, but if you ring ahead BTP may be able to meet the train later in its journey and the person may end up being brought to book for whatever they are carrying. I imagine also if you tell them to leave the train at X and they are still on board at later station Y, that would constitute intent to avoid payment.

As a guard/conductor/train manager you are NOT permitted to de-train someone at an unmanned station or without the assistance of BTP.

You do not know if said person is classed as vulnerable or is likely to cause further incidents for the persons manning the station/platform and/or the guard/conductor/manager of the next train which the person is likely to board

 

[Stigy]

As a guard/conductor/train manager you are NOT permitted to de-train someone at an unmanned station or without the assistance of BTP.

You do not know if said person is classed as vulnerable or is likely to cause further incidents for the persons manning the station/platform and/or the guard/conductor/manager of the next train which the person is likely to board

That is solely down to company policy and not legislation (unless somebody is under 16, in which case it’s pretty standard across the board - staff aren’t qualified to assertion when somebody is vulnerable for many other reasons). Police can certainly de-train somebody at any station they wish. If they believe them to be vulnerable then they should arrange transport home for them. This does not mean simply putting them on another train or asking staff to issue a UFN

 

[Stigy]

I've seen that the other way round as well, station staff just wanting to get disruptive passengers onto a train where they become somebody else's problem.

Absolutely. I’ve seen it both ways too.

 

[theironroad]

As a guard/conductor/train manager you are NOT permitted to de-train someone at an unmanned station or without the assistance of BTP.

You do not know if said person is classed as vulnerable or is likely to cause further incidents for the persons manning the station/platform and/or the guard/conductor/manager of the next train which the person is likely to board

You clearly work for a different TOC than I do then, though minors are exempted and obviously sensible discretion is required always.

Certainly wouldn't class Coventry as an unstaffed station which is the case in question.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of conflict and escalation arise from an over zealous attitude to revenue, but the incident as portrayed in this programme did no guards or revenue staff any favours at all especially as the job becomes far more about commercial activities and customer service than operational requirements.

 

[LAX54]

I have only seen one episode, but from reading here, it seems like it has done the Railway......all departments, not much good at all !

 

[30907]

I have only seen one episode, but from reading here, it seems like it has done the Railway......all departments, not much good at all !

Having seen all 3, I would say the opposite, with the exception of the strike day one which didn't reflect well on WMT's management of their RRBs.

 

[DelW]

I have only seen one episode, but from reading here, it seems like it has done the Railway......all departments, not much good at all !

There's always a tendency with this sort of programme to focus on things which go wrong, as everything running smoothly isn't considered very interesting, at least to the producers. It's not just on railways, programmes like Top Gear introduce pre-arranged "disasters" into their expeditions too.
If anything, I'd say it's the travelling public who come out worst, from this programme and others like it. When people are getting heated, they (we?) tend to say things they regret when they've calmed down, and I think a few of those shown would have cringed if they watched it.
In contrast, most of the railway staff come over as patient and trying to do their best in the face of difficulties not of their making, and which may be worsened by passengers' reactions to them. So (as an outside observer) I wouldn't consider most of it as a negative portrayal.

 

[185]

As a guard/conductor/train manager you are NOT permitted to de-train someone at an unmanned station or without the assistance of BTP....

...at some companies who've made their own rules up.

That said, the unions do nowadays warn against physical contact.

There is nothing in law, or the railway rule book preventing the ejection of a passenger at any station when safe to do so. I'm just trying to imagine the same 'law' being applied to a bus driver, telling him "you can't throw me off here, this is an unstaffed bus-stop....."

I understand why the rule might be there - the protection of children or those adults with another reason, but that judgement call is for the guard to make. Once off, the staff should alert either the company control or police whoever is relevant.

 

[johnquirke2000]

Hi, apologies if I have missed this but I am desperate to see this series. Does anybody know where I might find a replay of Trouble on the Tracks.? I have looked on itV Hub, youtube, vimeo, Internet Archive, etc but no sign of it. So, if anybody can help it will be greatly appreciated.

John

 

[anthony263]

Try daily motion

 

[Ashley Hill]

Hi, apologies if I have missed this but I am desperate to see this series. Does anybody know where I might find a replay of Trouble on the Tracks.? I have looked on itV Hub, youtube, vimeo, Internet Archive, etc but no sign of it. So, if anybody can help it will be greatly appreciated.

John

Could this be what you mean?

 

[the sniper]

Could this be what you mean?

He's presumable talking about the program which was the subject of this thread...

 

[Trackman]

Hi, apologies if I have missed this but I am desperate to see this series. Does anybody know where I might find a replay of Trouble on the Tracks.? I have looked on itV Hub, youtube, vimeo, Internet Archive, etc but no sign of it. So, if anybody can help it will be greatly appreciated.

John

I had some episodes saved on my Sky box as I knew someone in it, but they have now disappeared.
There's some email links on the ITV website for this programme, might be worth emailing them.

The Station: Trouble On The Tracks Episode 1

This new three-part documentary series for ITV goes behind the scenes with railway staff to provide a vivid insight into the variety of situations they face.

www.itv.com

 

[C J Snarzell]

Alot of the railway documentaries from yesteryear can be found on You Tube. I've just recently watched the BBC series from 2013 that actor Kevin Whately narrated on You Tube.

CJ