January 21st English Electric Theme Day All Diesel

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AJP

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ELR Should be good on January 21st English Electric Theme Day All Diesel. Any one no what will be attending? :?:
 
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bunnahabhain

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Well I should imagine it'll be the lines EE Locomotives and Units.

So expect the following (which are residents at the line) to work.

D8087
D5600
31467
31556
D335
D345
D1501
50015
55022

Doesnt seem to be a bad lineup, though I doubt you'll get much haulage behind them, after all it's only a pokey little branch line.
 

1K73

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:roll: :lol: :lol:

Seeing as 50015, 31556, 31467, 50015 and 55022 won't be available ( 50015 is under overhaul, 31156 is stored, 31467 is in bits being scrapped and 55022 'may' be in with a chance but is still at BH ) and that 1501 is in fact a Sulzer Class 47, thats a pretty inaccurate list you've invented isn't it?

Now for the truth.....

Most likely will be

D5600
D335 ( newly running in Green )
40145
207202 ( 1305 )

As definates, with

D8087
55022 ( doubtful )

as possibilities.


pokey little branch line.
Don't you just love a good bit of GCR based bias? :roll: Just the attitude i've come to expect from some of the GCR volunteers I know.... if anyone can find me a GCR volunteer who isn't a self opinionated "Our railway is better than yours because it is" ****, please tell me :lol:

As it happens, the ELR has

more diesel turns
more diesel galas
more diesel locos
more miles
more gradients

than the GCR....so who cares if its not double track? ( which is the GCRs only selling point, without which it'd be ruined.) At least here you get some thrash! :P

David
 

bunnahabhain

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40445 said:
As it happens, the ELR has

more diesel turns
more diesel galas
more diesel locos
more miles
more gradients
Do you have more Diesel turns because you cant afford to get a Steam Locomotive out?

Are your Diesel Gala's really a Gala? Come on, it's just a slightly improved timetable with only Diesel's running, for example this is what you could call a GCR Gala Timetable whereas you can probably on achieve 1/3 of what we could.

More Diesel Loco's?

GCR has the following,
2 x Industrial Shunters
D123 (Class 45)
D1705 (Class 47)
D3101 (Class 08)
D4067 (Class 10)
D5830 (Class 31)
37255
25265
D5185 (Class 25)
D6535 (Class 33)
E6003 (Class 73)
D8048 (Class 20)
D8098 (Class 20)
DMU101
DMU101
DMU127/120 Hybrid
(42)1393

ELR has the following,

D9531 (Class 14)
D8087 (Class 20)
D5054 (Class 24)
D5705 (Class 28)
D5600 (Class 31)
31467
31556
D6536 (Class 33)
D7076
40135
D345 (Class 40)
D832 (Class 42)
45135
47402
50015
D1041 (Class 52)
55022
7 x Shunters
Class 101
Class 105
Class 205


Let's see, on a tally basis on how many operational Diesel Locomotives that the GCR has, 12 out of 13, DMU's? 3 out of 8, EMU's? 1 out of 1.

Compared to the East Lancs Railway, the GCR theoretically has a larger Diesel Fleet to pool on, because most of ours actually work for their keep, rather than sit rusting in a siding, combined with the fact that most of ours dont vanish off to other railways or take wonders onto the Main Line.

More Miles eh?

A 16 mile round trip on the GCR of which you will cover only 4.7 miles twice, with the rest being on the Up Main or Down Main.

More Gradients?

How can you have more Gradients, I think our Gradients of 1 in 176 is adequate enough, after all we were built for speed, as in if we were upgraded to CWR, and tamped correctly, we could in theory run a HST at design speed, course we would need to extend the line a little.

Ontop of that we can run trains every 8 minutes in different directions at a time between Loughborough and Quorn, and every 10 minutes between Quorn and Rothley, every 8 minutes Loughborough to Rothley when we have Swithland Yard Signalbox operational, and every 9 minutes Loughborough to Leicester when we have double track, a second platform and a signalbox at Leicester.

You'll probably only ever manage a rather timid 40 minute frequency in each direction.
 

1K73

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Do you have more Diesel turns because you cant afford to get a Steam Locomotive out?
Nope. We have a steam and diesel turn each saturday as we realise the popularity of these turns, and we offer a different loco each week. As ever, its always 2 steam on sunday, so there are 2 in steam on Saturday anyway, so no cost expenses are changed.

D123 (Class 45)
D1705 (Class 47)
D3101 (Class 08)
D4067 (Class 10)
D5830 (Class 31)
37255
25265
D5185 (Class 25)
D6535 (Class 33)
E6003 (Class 73)
D8048 (Class 20)
D8098 (Class 20)
DMU101
DMU101
DMU127/120 Hybrid
(42)1393
Operatonal and capable of working passenger trains are:-

D123
D1705
D5830
D8048
D8098
E6003

and with

D6536
D5185

returning in 2006

( permanent way 25 and 37 not included ( as they are not rostered for passenger turns except at galas ), nor are diesel shunters and DMUs )

lets do the same for the ELR. ( again not including shunters, DMUs and Pway locos )

45135
D5054
D5600
D335
40145
47402
47575
D832
D7076
20901

with

D9531
55022
50015
20087

returning in 2006.

Therefore, we have far more operational diesels. I won't go into DMUs, and shunters, as these are not passenger turn locos.

Compared to the East Lancs Railway, the GCR theoretically has a larger Diesel Fleet to pool on, because most of ours actually work for their keep
As you so cleverly stated, you included shunters in the GCR Loco list, but not in the ELR one? For passenger trains, read mainline diesels ( Class 14-67 )

A 16 mile round trip on the GCR of which you will cover only 4.7 miles twice, with the rest being on the Up Main or Down Main.
Doesn't matter, its still exactly the same scenery. A round trip on the ELR is 24 miles, GCR is 16. Does it matter what side of the track its on? Its the same line.

How can you have more Gradients
8 miles of 1 in 100, 2 miles of 1 in 85, plus the ski jump at Bury, compared to the GCR.....discuss ;)

Ontop of that we can run trains every 8 minutes in different directions at a time between Loughborough and Quorn, and every 10 minutes between Quorn and Rothley, every 8 minutes Loughborough to Rothley when we have Swithland Yard Signalbox operational, and every 9 minutes Loughborough to Leicester when we have double track, a second platform and a signalbox at Leicester.
Ah, but on a normal weekend, is there such a demand? We have the capacity to run 4 8 coach trains, and the stock to do it. However, on a normal weekend no line ( not even ELR or GCR ) would be able of meeting this demand. Sure you do it at galas, but again, somehow I cannot see the demand.

You'll probably only ever manage a rather timid 40 minute frequency in each direction.
Timid maybe, but very sucessful and makes us a tidy profit each year!

The main gimmick behind the GCR is the double track. I must admit I liked it at first, but now, I have grown tired of the line. Sure you have authentic stations and such, but its the loco up front that does it for me, and neither your steam or diesel fleet have changed much over the last few years. This has been corrected at a few diesel galas ( where I seem to remember you have hired many a diesel from the ELR over many past events ), however this appears to have been lost. It would be great to see a visiting loco for a year, just to get that bit of variety the ELR offers, and the GCR lacks.

One request. Can we have a proper discussion, where you are able to accept the GCRs flaws? I'm fully prepared to accept the ELRs, but the fact that you are not prepared to in your quest to 'shout from the rooftops' that 'GCR is best' without stating a valid opinion rather than "look we've got double track what more do you want" ( and beleive me I want a lot more than double track! ) means that this petty arguement will continue.

Yours,

David

David
 

yorkie

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A bit of friendly banter is OK, providing it stays that way! Please don't escalate it (anyone) :)

It's not a competition, I'll try to get to the next diesel galas at both if I can
 

bunnahabhain

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I accept the GCR's flaws, our Flaw's are that we dont have enough Coaches, our stations are too short, we dont have enough to do at the stations, and both of our Diesel and Steam fleets dont change very often, though that is more of a good sign as it shows that the Railway and the Owning Groups get on well.

The reason we've not had any visiting Diesel Locmotives is because we have been without available funds for a while, although Main Line Steam Trust and the GCR did manage to get 73129 and 92212 in for the Autumn Steam Gala.

However I disagree with you saying that only some of our Diesels can work the Passenger Trains, as we can use any of the Diesel's on passenger trains, indeed we used 37255 on a Midweek Passenger run near the end of August.

I've not actually been shouting from the rooftops about the double track, I've been saying it allows us to operationally put on a far better show in terms of train frequency.

The thing I would love to see at the GCR is enhanced visitor facilities at each station, to give everybody, male or female, young or old, something to do when they fancy a break from riding the trains. On the whole though, we have improved the amount of Diesel Accomodation by around double, and added in 1 extra passenger train per weekend which is Diesel Hauled, which is a good improvement, personally I would love to have 2 Steam and 1 Diesel working all day, but that's not going to happen unless passenger numbers increase dramatically, and when that happens we'll be able to afford to bring in more locomotives, run more frequently if the demand is there, and just generally improve the visitor experience.

The only bad thing about the GCR is the cost of getting in the door, and as a TTI I absolutely hate working Gala Days, especially when you get a large family on the train who havnt paid and you charge them an astronomical fee when they just want a cheap day out, but that's the way it is!

Jamie.
 

joy54.gen

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Tbh I believed the ELR was overpriced when I went (I think this has now changed) it was 5 quid for a rtn trip between 2 stations, fortunatly the ticket lady was nice and said that it was ok and I didn't have to pay. I did enjoy the Thumper trip I had but both ways we had people throwing rocks and the train which did seem as if it was set in a dangerous location.

I haven't yet been to the GCR yet but hope to on Saturday.
 

bunnahabhain

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If you're coming off the Class 47's I will probably be in Nottingham and then heading straight off to do some TTI'ing on the GC.
 

Coxster

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No point comparing the two and arguing. It is quite simple. The GCR is mainly a steam railway, the ELR is mainly a diesel railway.

I hope to come - I have always wanted to go up to the East Lancashire Railway. I've heard that there is some good thrash and diesel locomotives up there. I also love the donation-ware MSTS route which helps with the CO-BO's refurbishment. Pokey little branchline? It's actually quite a long ride (judging by the MSTS route). Only one way to find out, having already had a taste of the GCR.
 

Nick

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40445 said:
How can you have more Gradients
8 miles of 1 in 100, 2 miles of 1 in 85, plus the ski jump at Bury, compared to the GCR.....discuss ;)
Come on lads, nowt compares to the beastly NYMR gradients :D
Oh and the ELR as a main line? Could you inform me on the history of it? Was this why it was opened....to recreate the "main line" or just so teh council could look good, I beleive it was the latter :)
 

bunnahabhain

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Beaker said:
why run kettles a bulleid on swanage costs about £500 a day yet a 33 is £25 a shot.
Because the average family will turn away if they are paying a lot of money for a ride behind a Diesel, it's almost always cheaper to drive to the local main line station, buy a ticket to the next station, and give your kids a DMU ride, rather than have a ride behind a Class 33.

Steam is where a lot of the money is at, but ideally a combination between Steam and Diesel should be met.
 

Coxster

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Jamie C. Steel said:
Beaker said:
why run kettles a bulleid on swanage costs about £500 a day yet a 33 is £25 a shot.
Because the average family will turn away if they are paying a lot of money for a ride behind a Diesel, it's almost always cheaper to drive to the local main line station, buy a ticket to the next station, and give your kids a DMU ride, rather than have a ride behind a Class 33.

Steam is where a lot of the money is at, but ideally a combination between Steam and Diesel should be met.
Ever heard of diesel enthusiasts? :roll:
 

Guinness

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Coxster said:
Jamie C. Steel said:
Beaker said:
why run kettles a bulleid on swanage costs about £500 a day yet a 33 is £25 a shot.
Because the average family will turn away if they are paying a lot of money for a ride behind a Diesel, it's almost always cheaper to drive to the local main line station, buy a ticket to the next station, and give your kids a DMU ride, rather than have a ride behind a Class 33.

Steam is where a lot of the money is at, but ideally a combination between Steam and Diesel should be met.
Ever heard of diesel enthusiasts? :roll:
Diesel isn't as popular with kiddies as opposed to steam and Railways want to be fun for all the family not just some stoats in anoraks.... Diesel is still about across the mainline, steam is very rare.....
 

Guinness

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Coxster said:
Well, the ELR is obviously doing something right - they're a well known railway!
Advertising? The GCR re-opened while BR closed the rest of line (To Rugby, Aylesbury etc.). SVR has a long rich history, so has NYMR. So I guess its down to existing and advertising over the years.....
 

bunnahabhain

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If you wanted a Steam Train ride and you went to a railway and was unaware that they could only provide a Diesel for all passenger trains on that day would you still be willing to pay £10+ to have a ride, bearing in mind this is the average family with young kids, and two Parents.

Many people turn away and go elsewhere if they wanted a Steam Train Ride and could only get a Diesel Ride from a Railway.
 

1K73

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Incorrect. We actually had a survey on one of our high season ( 2 steam 1 diesel ) weekends last year, and 95% of those who whern't enthusiasts wouldn't have turned away if it was a diesel ( and vice versa from those on the diesel service )

Joe Public doesn't really care whats up front, as long as the carriages are what they travelled in when they where children, the stations resemble those from yesteryear, and the whole experience provokes memories for them. Thats what they come for.

David
 

Coxster

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I really wish you'd get it into your head Jamie - THERE ARE DIESEL ENTHUSIASTS! Just accept it - you are a steam railway and the ELR is a very successful diesel railway. If a family want to go on a steam train, they will go to a steam railway!
 

Guinness

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Coxster said:
I really wish you'd get it into your head Jamie - THERE ARE DIESEL ENTHUSIASTS! Just accept it - you are a steam railway and the ELR is a very successful diesel railway. If a family want to go on a steam train, they will go to a steam railway!
But then again would a family want to drive 50 miles plus to go on a Steam Train? I guess its down to different peoples tastes....
 

matt

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When I went to the ELR in August it was nice to be able to go on both steam and diesel. When I was at the ELR there was two steam and diesel running.
 

bunnahabhain

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Coxster said:
I really wish you'd get it into your head Jamie - THERE ARE DIESEL ENTHUSIASTS! Just accept it - you are a steam railway and the ELR is a very successful diesel railway. If a family want to go on a steam train, they will go to a steam railway!
I know there are Diesel Enthusiasts, I've not said there are not any have I? I have said that Customers will turn away if they cannot ride a steam train and they wanted a Steam Train ride I did not say anything along the lines of "Diesel Enthusiasts dont exist, what a preposterous idea".

Also Damon, the ELR is not a Diesel Railway, it is a Heritage Railway, same as the GCR is a Heritage Railway, whereas the EKR and the MNR are Diesel Railways.
 

TheSlash

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The EKR is a multi traction railway. We have electrified trains [MLV's}, Diesel trains {Units and hauled stock} and we are working towards the reintroduction of steam, starting with visiting engines.
 

Guinness

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Galvanize said:
Look, if you want steam, just go to the Bluebell Railway which is 100% steam :roll:
If you want steam - Go to a Railway where they run steam and go on a steam train!
 

Tom B

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Most railways have a good balance - mainly steam but some diesel for the diesel enthusiasts. IMO diesels *will* get bigger over time as less people remember kettles.
 
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