Japan has scrapped hundreds of Shinkansen in perfect condition

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, the NoL sets have been withdrawn two months ago, and about four months ago three of the 3C sets - the ones SNCF used domestically - went for scrap.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I hope its ok that I ask train related questions in here, since we dont really have serious train forums here in Denmark

It really strikes me that Japan has scrapped all 69 sets of the 300 series Shinkansen build from 1990 - 1998 - not exactly an old train. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Series_Shinkansen
They are also in the process of scrapping 26 sets of their E4 bi-level series build between 1997 - 2003. What a Waste! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4_Series_Shinkansen

They do this only to save rather few minutes with newer trains on the main routes.

Does anybody know what the scrap price is per train set?

If another country could buy them for the scrap price and use them in service, then that might be quite a bargain. :razz:

Actually, you don't have to go as far as Japan to witness the scrapping of 20/25 years old modern high speed trains, it's happening much closer to home than that! Infact here in Europe where our E* class 373 (North of London) TGV units are about to be broken up in France. Probably more chance of those being made compatable for operation in Denmark than Shinkansen units (Edit: beaten to it by above two posts!)

 

[ainsworth74]

What about our aircraft carriers that were built with a 20 year hull and have now been withdrawn with no replacement in sight!

Was it a 20 year design life? Thought it was closer to 30 personally (I thought the out of service dates were originally between 2010 - 2016 for all three). Of course, due to defence cuts, they were all withdrawn earlier than planned some quite considerably (Ark Royal went about fiveish years before she was planned to).

But as wolfie says most warships will be designed with around 30 years of life. That they may be withdrawn earlier has far more to do with politics than it does with their designed life.

You're right Wolfie - I've just gone by some examples such as Los Angeles Class of submarines some of which were retired early.

(Source Wikipedia)

Ah, that's got more to do with the US cutting back on defence expenditure (stop sniggering at the back) than it does with their designed life. Also a few of them have had rather exciting accidents (smashing into an undersea mountain, catching fire in dry dock) that's led to some rejigging of the fleet.

 

[DownSouth]

SNCF has recently withdrawn three TGV-A sets ( 318, 338 and 371 ) which are only 20 years old - and that's on top of the total so far of over 40 TGV-SE withdrawals ( those being roughly 30 years old ).

High speed stock does tend to have a shorter working life than ordinary stock - a point that a few people have made on this forum in recent months.

And Shinkansen units are worked especially hard compared to the luxurious life enjoyed by a European high speed train. They get better preventative maintenance than a TGV or ICE does, but that only improves day to day reliability (of which the bar is set much higher in Japan) and does nothing about the wear and tear on the structure.

The first generations of Shinkansen trains (0 and 100 and 200 series) lasted for around 30 - 40 years without serious tecnical problems. I expect that the scrapped 200, 300, and E4 series is build in the same long lasting quality.

None of the vehicles of those earlier classes actually accrued more than 21 years of service without a mid-life rebuild (and none longer than 27 years with a rebuild) which is actually a very respectable service life when the harder working of Shinkansen trains is considered.

The last 0 Series which were retired in early 2008 were all built in 1985-86 (well after the original 0 Series build were retired), giving them a service life of 22-23 years including a mid-life rebuild.

 

[Wardog]

SNCF has recently withdrawn three TGV-A sets ( 318, 338 and 371 ) which are only 20 years old - and that's on top of the total so far of over 40 TGV-SE withdrawals ( those being roughly 30 years old ).

High speed stock does tend to have a shorter working life than ordinary stock - a point that a few people have made on this forum in recent months.

I reckon that the reason for scrapping the TGVs, is to replace them with double deckers for higher seating capacity, rather than them being scrap ready?

The E4 series double decker is produced from 1997 - 2003, but are to be completely retired in 2016 - thats only a 13 years life span for the latest produced.

I do wonder about the costs of expanding the life of a 20 year old TGV or Shinkansen with 20 aditional years, versus buying a new simular product.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I reckon that the reason for scrapping the TGVs, is to replace them with double deckers for higher seating capacity, rather than them being scrap ready?

There is certainly an element of this as deliveries of double deck TGVs are still progressing at a high rate and some of the original SE sets are still being given overhauls, so overall it's probably a bit of both elements with the worst of the SEs being scrapped.

 

[notadriver]

Also thinking about these high speed train sets, their configuration seems to make them unsuitable for anything other than high speed work. One would have thought they could ply their trade on the main line instead of the usual loco push-pull services (in France) ?

 

[Monty]

What about our aircraft carriers that were built with a 20 year hull and have now been withdrawn with no replacement in sight!

What carriers are they mate? Ark Royal, the youngest of the 3 Invincible class carriers was pushing beyond 25 when she was prematurely decommissioned. Lusty and Invincible were well over 30 when they got the chop. I agree with Wolfie, as a general rule most military equipment has an expected service life of about 30 years and sometimes even longer. Any equipment that has any useful life remaining is generally sold on like our C-130K fleet and the Upholder class submarines.

 

[cjmillsnun]

15 years is pretty good going for a car! If you'd had the same car for that long I doubt you'd be that opposed to buying a new one if something caught your eye

Note that I didn't say anything about build quality, I'm sure current units are of the same high quality as previous generations. My point was indicating that their designed life and expected life may be considerably shorter that previous generations. That doesn't mean they're a poor quality product.

Our HSTs were supposed to be a stop gap lasting fifteen maybe twenty years. Currently their well into their thirties and some will probably make it to well beyond forty!

So as I said previously if the withdrawn units were expected and planned to last thirty years then it does seem a waste. If their planned lives were only fifteen years or so then I don't see the issue.

Some will probably?

More like some will definitely. 43002 and 43003 are 40 next year.

 

[Wardog]

The Japanese must really be nuts.

I missed that they also scrapping the 700 series (6 sets so far) besides the models mentioned in the OP.

This train was produced as late as 1997 - 2006 and has a new price tag of 22 million pounds. Wow, just wow! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/700_Series_Shinkansen

 

[Pugwash]

A shame these are not compatible with the Channel Tunnel - would have been nice to see a low cost operator pick half a dozen up to run in competition to Eurostar to Paris.

As much as I love Eurostar, I feel they do need some competition to keep them honest.