JAvelin - are they part of the standard Travelcard system

[alcockell]

Hi folks,

Just watching the BBC Games Guide - they mentioned the new Javelin services... are they part of the standard Travelcard system?

 

[Mojo]

Hi folks,

Just watching the BBC Games Guide - they mentioned the new Javelin services... are they part of the standard Travelcard system?

The Javelin services, once they start running in a few weeks time, will only accept the 'Games Travelcard' issued free to spectators attending events at a select few sites. Standard Travelcards will not be valid, except those routed 'Plus High Speed' from somewhere along the route, which are valid for a return to St Pancakes, plus unlimited travel elsewhere in the zones (but not on the Javelins).

 

[alcockell]

The Javelin services, once they start running in a few weeks time, will only accept the 'Games Travelcard' issued free to spectators attending events at a select few sites. Standard Travelcards will not be valid, except those routed 'Plus High Speed' from somewhere along the route, which are valid for a return to St Pancakes, plus unlimited travel elsewhere in the zones (but not on the Javelins).

What about other longer-haul tickets? For instance, if I wanted to go through to Ashford from Reading? Could I just hop on a Javelin as part of my travel on a Saver return?

 

[Clip]

What about other longer-haul tickets? For instance, if I wanted to go through to Ashford from Reading? Could I just hop on a Javelin as part of my travel on a Saver return?

If it said(and it should) 'Any permitted then yes. But you would have to check as they are thinning the services on the HS1 line so they can utilise the paths for the Javelin shuttles.

 

[jon0844]

It might also be quite crowded at St Pancras, and a place to consider avoiding altogether.

 

[LexyBoy]

What about other longer-haul tickets? For instance, if I wanted to go through to Ashford from Reading? Could I just hop on a Javelin as part of my travel on a Saver return?

Yes, the only single/return tickets on this flow are routed +Any Permitted so travel via HS1 into St Pancras, or the classic lines into Charing X, Victoria etc is permitted.

Wierdly the only season available on this flow is routed London Not Underground, which is not especially useful.

 

[clagmonster]

Wierdly the only season available on this flow is routed London Not Underground, which is not especially useful.

I presume the intended route for said tickets is via Waterloo and Waterloo East, but I don't see why they wouldn't be valid for travel via Paddington and St. Pancras if you were to walk between the two stations. There is a method of calculating a season for travel via the Underground, which is:
Reading-London Zones 1-6 season + Ashford-London Zones 1-6 season less an inboundary Zones 1-6 season.

 

[button_boxer]

What about other longer-haul tickets? For instance, if I wanted to go through to Ashford from Reading? Could I just hop on a Javelin as part of my travel on a Saver return?

You could, but bear in mind that the Javelin service is primarily a shuttle between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, and only two trains per hour will actually go all the way through to Ashford.

 

[alcockell]

You could, but bear in mind that the Javelin service is primarily a shuttle between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, and only two trains per hour will actually go all the way through to Ashford.

Ah. As in links to Eurostar?

 

[Kentish Paul]

Is this a recent thing that a season ticket from Ashford to London does not include a travelcard part if you want one. Until recently my son commuted from Ashford to Bond St via HS1 using an Ashford to London Zones 1-6 season (plus high speed). Also when I get an off peak return from Ashford to Castle Cary its valid on HS1 and the underground from St Pancras to Paddington.

 

[LexyBoy]

Ah. As in links to Eurostar?

No, it's just the regular HS1 service to Kent (possibly reduced service, I'm not that familiar). The Javelin service will consist of additional trains shuttling between Stratford and St Pancras.

Is this a recent thing that a season ticket from Ashford to London does not include a travelcard part if you want one. Until recently my son commuted from Ashford to Bond St via HS1 using an Ashford to London Zones 1-6 season (plus high speed).

Sorry, I don't understand. Season tickets from most places in the South East, Ashford included, are available either to London Terminals (i.e. not including any other transport within London), or as Travelcards.

Also when I get an off peak return from Ashford to Castle Cary its valid on HS1 and the underground from St Pancras to Paddington.

Yes, any ticket for which HS1 forms part of a Permitted Route (as determined by the Routeing Guide) will be valid on HS1, unless the ticket is restricted by route or operator such as to render HS1 routes invalid (e.g. "Route: Not HS1" or "Route: Southern Only").

 

[yorkie]

Is this a recent thing that a season ticket from Ashford to London does not include a travelcard part if you want one.

A Travelcard is an optional extra. This is known as an "out boundary Travelcard". The Travelcard add-on itself is not booked on HS1 services (with the exception of Games Travelcards as described in this thread) it is the Ashford to London part of the ticket that makes it valid. The Travelcard add-on is for travel from London or Stratford to other places that are not on the Ashford to London routes.

Until recently my son commuted from Ashford to Bond St via HS1 using an Ashford to London Zones 1-6 season (plus high speed).

Which would have cost extra compared to Ashford to London Terminals.

Also when I get an off peak return from Ashford to Castle Cary its valid on HS1 and the underground from St Pancras to Paddington.

Yes, that is quite probably the shortest route, it's certainly the quickest, and is a mapped route, so perfectly valid. An Off Peak Return ticket isn't to be confused with a query about Travelcards though.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Sorry for the confusion but I think I should have read the thread more carefully. I think when it was said " a season on this flow is "London not underground" refers to a Reading - Ashford season not an Ashford - London season or ordinary single/return ticket on this route.

Well aware of seasons/travelcards having commuted for 15 years until 2006.

Also travel from Ashford to March fairly regularly and the SE website offers the same price and validity via Cambridge or Peterborough.

How does this work as via Peterborough is surely longer than the 3 mile rule.

 

[johnnycache]

The routeing guide shows that for a journey from Ashford (Kent) to March the routeing points are Ashford (origin) and Ely or Peterborough (destination) - also Norwich but i've ignored that

The rule is that you can travel via Ely as long as the fare from Ashford to Ely does not exceed the fare from Ashford to March or via Peterborough as long as the fare does from Ashford to Peterborough does not exceed Ashford to March

The fares compared are actually NFM64 but the NRE website is programmed to do these fare checks and if it offers you both routes at the same price (as it does) then they are both valid

The other rules about routeing are

1) you can always travel on a direct service irrespective of mileage
2) you can always use the shortest route
3) you can always use a route not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route

Sorry if you knew this stuff already

 

[yorkie]

Kentish Paul - No problem (btw there's no need to use the 'Title' field when replying; users of our mobile theme/apps cannot see titles of any posts other than the original post)

Also travel from Ashford to March fairly regularly and the SE website offers the same price and validity via Cambridge or Peterborough.

How does this work as via Peterborough is surely longer than the 3 mile rule.

It's a mapped route.

March is associated with 3 Routeing Points (RPs); Ely, Peterborough & Norwich. Peterborough is an appropriate RP for an Ashford to March ticket.

Therefore, using Peterborough as an RP, you may travel on any mapped route between Ashford & London, then any mapped route between London & Peterborough, and then on to March.

This is as defined in the Routeing Guide.

It's probably best to open a new thread for each query as otherwise the thread can get confused (unless the query is very similar in nature).

 

[Kentish Paul]

Thanks everyone. Must go to bed with the routeing guide !!!

Just in case anyone takes offence this is a joke! Thanks for the info.

 

[Mojo]

You could, but bear in mind that the Javelin service is primarily a shuttle between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, and only two trains per hour will actually go all the way through to Ashford.

Ashford currently has only 2 trains per hour anyway from London in the ordinary timetable. The only real change to customers travelling between London and Ashford on the Highspeed services will be the slightly altered timings and the late evening break, with no trains between 21.39 and 00.41.