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Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

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Xenophon PCDGS

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Well the railways began to lose profitability after people bought cheap trucks after WW1.

I think that statements such as this, but on a large co-ordinated scale, could well have been said when the railways began to take over the trade that the canal companies had established, which in turn was once the preserve of the turnpikes.

Where to finally draw the line of comparison is the moot point.
 
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Flamingo

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I really like the sound of these 'hot seat' weeks where the Directors and Managers have to travel Standard Class to see what it is really like for most of their paying customers.

Kind of like what Jeremy was doing really.
No, Jeremy, out of his own choice, was sitting on the floor in a vestibule. Something most (but not all) passengers don't do when there is the option of sitting in a seat, like Jeremy had.

The reality for the vast majority of passengers travelling Standard Class is that they get a seat.
 

Master29

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Bletchleyite

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I think it means someone was saving them by putting a bag on them, in which case a request to move the bag should work, otherwise simply pick it up and carefully place it in the overhead yourself. Seats are for people, not bags.


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Flamingo

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I think it means someone was saving them by putting a bag on them, in which case a request to move the bag should work, otherwise simply pick it up and carefully place it in the overhead yourself. Seats are for people, not bags.


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True. When I heard that, I thought if you are not assertive enough to ask somebody to move their bag off a seat to allow you to sit down, should you really be saying you can run the country?
 

jayah

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No, Jeremy, out of his own choice, was sitting on the floor in a vestibule. Something most (but not all) passengers don't do when there is the option of sitting in a seat, like Jeremy had.

The reality for the vast majority of passengers travelling Standard Class is that they get a seat.

I don't think anyone is disputing other passengers on that train were also sitting on the floor.

If David Horne MD holder of a First Class pass ends up sitting on the floor in Standard (which reading the article actually happened during Hot Seat week) then they really aren't that different.
 

najaB

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I don't think anyone is disputing other passengers on that train were also sitting on the floor.
I'm not saying this was necessarily the case here, but I regularly see people sitting on the floor despite there being available seats.
 

Mordac

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I'm not saying this was necessarily the case here, but I regularly see people sitting on the floor despite there being available seats.

^^

Seen it too many times to count, too, even on 350/4s where the seats had to be on their line of sight!
 

Mojo

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Perhaps Virgin should be more concerned as to why their branded Tocs get almost five times as many complaints (as a proportion of customer numbers) compared to the industry average of non-Virgin branded franchised Tocs.
 

D1009

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I get the impression that a minority of people would prefer to stand rather than sit next to or opposite a stranger. This causes other people to assume there are no spare seats, and on long distance trains there isn't much standing room.
 

WatcherZero

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I love how that 'proof' that Virgin/Branson are lying is 13 seconds of him walking through part of one coach - is there a reason they started and stopped the video at the points they did? :s


Other way round, that's the selective editing of one trying to prove Corbyn was telling the truth. The Virgin released footage shows other carriages and even in those stills which the bloke is trying to disprove it shows the same empty seats that Corbyn sat at half an hour later lying vacant. Corbyn sat at the ones in the back not the ones in the front the guy is pointing too a child sitting in.
 
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Busaholic

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I think it means someone was saving them by putting a bag on them, in which case a request to move the bag should work, otherwise simply pick it up and carefully place it in the overhead yourself. Seats are for people, not bags.


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TBH if I had a nice window seat, the seat next to me not reserved and I had a bag into which I wished to delve all journey, and Jezza turns up asking if the seat is taken (accompanied by a camera crew), I might just be tempted to tell a slight porkie in the hope he'd go somewhere else. Doesn't just apply to Corbyn, I can think of loads of other politicians and other people whose near presence I would prefer not to endure. Having said that, and before the righteous indignation starts, of course I would stow the bag should the seat be required.
 

AlterEgo

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Perhaps Virgin should be more concerned as to why their branded Tocs get almost five times as many complaints (as a proportion of customer numbers) compared to the industry average of non-Virgin branded franchised Tocs.

Is it really still that bad...??
 

thenorthern

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Isn't it strange though Jeremy Corbyn making a short film on a train without permission about re-nationalising the railways even though Labour won't ever do it has done the following things:


  • Jeremy Corbyn being seen as misleading the public for claiming to be on an overcrowded train when he wasn't.
  • Virgin Trains releasing a CCTV image and facing a data protection enquiry.
  • Days of constant nonesense reports about "Traingate" with both Corbyn and the press making a mountain out of a molehill.
  • Calls by John McDonnell for Sir Richard Branson to lose his knighthood.
  • More suggestions that the Labour Party is falling apart.
  • 48 pages and 706 posts on this forum.
  • Calls for more seats on trains even when they aren't overcrowded.
  • Calls for nationalisation as under British Rail trains were never overcrowded and were always on time.
 

Mojo

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Is it really still that bad...??
According to the latest ORR stats for the final quarter of 2015/16, the most complained about franchised Toc was East Coast with 184.5 complaints per 100,000 journeys. West Coast was second with 170.9, an average of 177.7 for all Tocs branded "Virgin."

This compares with an average of 35.8 complaints per 100,000 journeys for franchised Tocs that are not branded "Virgin."
 

Domh245

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Would that take into account that VTEC and VTWC 'suffering' from NR upgrade works? GWR would also have had similar disruption but their figures would be skewed by including all of the Thames Valley and Western stuff in addition to the Intercity bits.
 

miami

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What's that the price of? An Anytime single London to Manchester is £166.

But why would you pay that for the 1540 when the return half of a SVR Lancaster to London is £75 cheaper and perfectly valid?
 
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Mojo

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But why would you pay that for the 1540 when the return half of a SVR Lancaster to London is £75 cheaper and perfectly valid?

Can you really expect ordinary customers to take advantage of such loopholes. For all intents and purposes the fare to Manchester if someone turned up at half 3, is £166.
 

Robertj21a

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According to the latest ORR stats for the final quarter of 2015/16, the most complained about franchised Toc was East Coast with 184.5 complaints per 100,000 journeys. West Coast was second with 170.9, an average of 177.7 for all Tocs branded "Virgin."

This compares with an average of 35.8 complaints per 100,000 journeys for franchised Tocs that are not branded "Virgin."

That sounds quite terrible but without a break down into the constituent issues it rather loses significance.
 

Groningen

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It is Corbyn choice not to reserve a train. To make your point you are searching for the most crowded train; even if it is not. I mean; he wants to go to his lovely wife to eat.
 

embers25

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According to the latest ORR stats for the final quarter of 2015/16, the most complained about franchised Toc was East Coast with 184.5 complaints per 100,000 journeys. West Coast was second with 170.9, an average of 177.7 for all Tocs branded "Virgin."

This compares with an average of 35.8 complaints per 100,000 journeys for franchised Tocs that are not branded "Virgin."

Which interestingly is still lower than complaints were for most of the time East Coast was under DOR! West Coast complaints have also fallen this year compared to last. Also it needs to borne in mind the consequences of electrification on the cheap on the East Coast causing higher than usual failure rates and the amount of engineering work on West Coast. Also a breakdown of complaints due directly to Virgin TOCS and not as a consequence of others (eg Notwork Fail issues, London Midland issues causing overcrowding etc) would be far more meaningful.

I'm not saying Virgin are great and I for one think their on and off train customer service leaves a lot to be desired, but the statistics Mojo is quoting can certainly not be used as evidence of Virgin being a failing TOC compared to others. If they could then, given the DOR numbers are generally worse, surely renationalisation would be a disaster.
 
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Muttley

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According to the latest ORR stats for the final quarter of 2015/16, the most complained about franchised Toc was East Coast with 184.5 complaints per 100,000 journeys. West Coast was second with 170.9, an average of 177.7 for all Tocs branded "Virgin."

This compares with an average of 35.8 complaints per 100,000 journeys for franchised Tocs that are not branded "Virgin."

That'll be how Southern aren't top, they don't provide journeys in the first place, so their thousands of complaints aren't recordable.

Maybe both Virgin's are higher because their fares are higher, so there is an elevated expectation; and people will see it as more worthwhile to complain and possibly get a percentage back of a triple figure ticket than a single figure ticket.
 

AlterEgo

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That'll be how Southern aren't top, they don't provide journeys in the first place, so their thousands of complaints aren't recordable.

Maybe both Virgin's are higher because their fares are higher, so there is an elevated expectation; and people will see it as more worthwhile to complain and possibly get a percentage back of a triple figure ticket than a single figure ticket.

There are a number of factors that mean Virgin have a higher complaint rate than other TOCs (and I don't believe they're a worse TOC than any other Intercity service). In order from most to least important as I see it:

1. High fares = high expectation

2. Aspirational marketing = high expectation

3. Branson factor - "Surely Richard can do better than this?"

4. Virgin Group's illustrious history of making goodwill gestures or features from complaints. Who can forget this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/t...e-worlds-best-passenger-complaint-letter.html

5. They run a "with frills" service. This means there's a lot more that can go wrong, and a lot more to complain about. There's WiFi, hot meals, the Shop, window blinds, Beam, the Traveller club....plus so much more...

6. They regularly send out loads of vouchers with complaints to make you go away (no, seriously, they do...)
 

jon0844

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A photo on social media suggests Unite reserved all the seats on a Virgin train to Birmingham for those travelling to the Conservative party conference.

Already someone has asked why they'd spend that much money, but it got me wondering if it really was more than just a couple of seats, and whether they actually occupied? If not, surely anyone would sit there anyway.

Also, the text seemed more like it was train crew that set it up - perhaps as a joke? But what would management think about that?

https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/782487099136237568

What is it about Virgin trains?!
 

6Gman

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A photo on social media suggests Unite reserved all the seats on a Virgin train to Birmingham for those travelling to the Conservative party conference.

Already someone has asked why they'd spend that much money, but it got me wondering if it really was more than just a couple of seats, and whether they actually occupied? If not, surely anyone would sit there anyway.

Also, the text seemed more like it was train crew that set it up - perhaps as a joke? But what would management think about that?

https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/782487099136237568

What is it about Virgin trains?!

Unite has organised a rally and march in Birmingham today to protest against the government. Travel arrangements from most places are by coach, but London area recommended travel by train hence numerous reservations.
 
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