Jobcentre

[mac]

I was talking to my mate last night and he has had to sign on for the basic dole of £71. Yesterday he went for his first meeting at the jobcentre and got told that to claim his money he would have to show that he his looking for work which is fine but he would also have to apply for 3 jobs per week. How can they tell you how many to apply for if the jobs aren't there, it hardly seems worth applying for jobs he cannot do but if not he won't get his money. Companies must get fed up with people applying for jobs they cannot do.

 

[Oswyntail]

Rules are rules:roll: It is easy enough, though, to make an application so bad no one would touch you.
When I had my second brush with the Jobcentre, I had no success with anything, and I was coming to the end of some period or other and was called in for an interview with a careers analyst. After a brief chat, she wondered if I had ever considered retraining into IT. Good idea! Now what area had I been working in for 20 years and just been made redundant from I wonder? I walked out and became a househusband.

 

[anthony263]

Just apply for any job which is what I did each week as well as jobs I was interested in and could do.

I eneded up applying for jobs based all over the uk.

 

[ainsworth74]

If you think that the role of the Jobcentre and their advisors are to get you (or your friend in this case) into work then I'm sorry to say that you're very wrong. The role of the Jobcentre is to administor Job Seekers Allowance and reduce the number of people being paid as much as possible. There are two ways of doing this: 1) get them to find any job at all no matter if they want it/are suited to it or 2) sanction them (have their money stopped for a period of time which increases with each sanction). If your friend puts so much as a toe out of line they'll be sanctioned, trust me on this.

So with that in mind they don't care what jobs you apply only that you apply for them. If it were me I'd focus my energies on looking for work that I actually want to do and if I've not managed three at the end of the week just find any old thing and bang a CV into it to make up the numbers.

Also be wary of advisors telling them that they have to sign up to Universal Job Match and that they have to tick the box that allows the advisor to see their activity. They cannot force you to give them access and if it were me I would not do it, the last thing you want is the DWP/Jobcenter Advisor snooping around especially because they can then start asking 'Why didn't you apply for this job? You looked at it what was wrong with it?' and unless you have a very very very good reason that opens the door to a sanction.

 

[Butts]

Also be wary of advisors telling them that they have to sign up to Universal Job Match and that they have to tick the box that allows the advisor to see their activity. They cannot force you to give them access and if it were me I would not do it, the last thing you want is the DWP/Jobcenter Advisor snooping around especially because they can then start asking 'Why didn't you apply for this job? You looked at it what was wrong with it?' and unless you have a very very very good reason that opens the door to a sanction.

To be fair from my experience this system does have advantages - ie you do not have to fill out that "silly book".

Also you can upload a CV and as someone else mentioned automatically apply for any vacancy. The system records this and they can see what you have done. Your "agreement" sets out exactly which measures have to be undertaken each week , and I believe they are open to negotiation.

My last advisor was very helpful, I think if they can see you are making a genuine effort you don't get any hassle. Strangely they seem to have almost "given up" on some - those who make no effort or are long term "skivers"

 

[mac]

One of the things I am getting at is if there are 2 million without work and they all apply for 3 jobs per week that's 6 million applications each week but there is not that many jobs. It could be possible for a company looking for 1 person to end up with 10000 applying to get there dole.

 

[gordonthemoron]

which is presumably the reason why so many job applications receive no reply

 

[SS4]

One of the things I am getting at is if there are 2 million without work and they all apply for 3 jobs per week that's 6 million applications each week but there is not that many jobs. It could be possible for a company looking for 1 person to end up with 10000 applying to get there dole.

Which is often what happens. Plus a lot of the jobs are sketchy at best and often commission only too. That gives rise to those crappy online "assessments" - which are necessary really because a human would spend too long reading hundreds of applications.

I can't think of a fairer way for JCP to define actively seeking work though.

 

[plarailfan]

When I was made redundant three years ago, the Jobcentre asked if I would be happy to go voluntarily, on a course run by Remploy, to help me find a job.
Remploy had one or two contacts with local employers and I spent a day (unpaid) looking round and then, I even ended up learning to operate a floor cleaning machine.
Needless to say, shortly afterwards I had a job with them, but at ten grand a year less pay than I was earning previously !
The job centre offered me another voluntary / unpaid course, run by A4e (Action for employment) and they also had contacts in local firms, although nothing was available at the time I was there, BUT by doing all this, the job centre staff CAN see you are trying to find work and I found that when I "signed on" I showed them all my pages and pages of course work and didn't usually get much hassle from them. Personally, the only thing I don't like is feeling pressured to jump straightaway into the first job you have skills for, when it is only paying minimum wage, as it may mean you only work a couple of weeks before moving to a better job that you've already applied for elsewhere !
I DID want to work, being on the dole did my head in, as it had never happened to me before, but, even so, it still took me almost a year to become employed again, due to some jobs starting early, 05.00/06.00 before local bus times, or excessive travel costs, by being too far from my home.
Good luck to your mate, Mac. Hope my experience can be useful to him.

 

[fowler9]

I have to supply evidence of 7 jobseeking activities a week. I normally supply about 18 and have actually applied for loads more. I volunteered to go on an enhanced employability course for 7 days. At the end of the day it got me out of the house and I got a free travel pass for that time. Plus it shows I am being pro active. As others have said it basically keeps them off your back, I still panic every time I go in though (Next time tomorrow morning) in case they find some discrepancy even though I know there aren't any.

Good luck to your mate, it is really tough at the mo and there isn't much out there jobs wise.

 

[notadriver]

Is there still a bus driver shortage these days ? That was my first job. I'm sorry about your friend mac.

 

[Drsatan]

I have had two spells on the dole this year.

The first was the longest, at just under four months. As you can imagine, my local jobcentre was adamant I apply for at least six jobs a week, and provide evidence that I was taking other steps to find work. These steps could include registering with an employment agency, buying a newspaper solely for the job section or attending a 'return to employment course'. I was usually able to meet the 'other steps' quota without any problems since I bought the local newspaper twice a week and got into the habit of chasing up job applications I'd already sent.

Also be wary of advisors telling them that they have to sign up to Universal Job Match and that they have to tick the box that allows the advisor to see their activity. They cannot force you to give them access and if it were me I would not do it, .

That's interesting . For my first claim this year I wasn't persuaded to sign onto Universal Jobmatch, but for the second time I signed on this year the jobcentre gave the impression it was mandatory to use this service (indeed, one letter I received from them strongly implied UJM was mandatory.) Nonetheless, I found UJM pretty useless for the reasons others have suggested on this thread: scam jobs, dodgy work-at-home schemes, and lots of minimum wage jobs far away from home, many of which (as they were cleaning jobs) mentioned early morning starts.

Nonetheless, I ended up applying for jobs I wasn't qualified for on UJM and any suitable job within a 15 mile radius of my house on Reed.co.uk, which is where I found my most recent job.

 

[Greenback]

One of the problems I found was that I became too focused on making sufficient applications to satisfy the Jobcentre, even though my search for employment was almsot never even glanced at. Nonetheless, I was trying to apply for so many jobs to fill up my jobsearch book that my applications were not good enough to get me a job!

In the end, I realised what was happening and refocused my efforts on making a smaller number of applications and only for jobs I was really unterested in and voila - I found work!

As for people making poor applications deliberately I've seen it too many times now, including from people I know personally (but they have no idea I am seeing their application forms!).

 

[Graeme.Davis]

I'm currently on JSA but the problem is they always make me apply for jobs I have either no interest in or never done before.

 

[Butts]

The biggest get out is if you live somewhere "really rural" where you often get away with signing on "by post" rather than having to visit in person every fortnight.

However the downside is there are probably few if any jobs

 

[David]

Sounds like I qot "away" quite lightly then with my job search requirements while I was unemployed last year. I had to apply for 2 jobs a week, as well as visit 2 companies a week looking for work (nice and easy to combine), plus do 2 job searches a week as well.

For the job searches, I made a point of arriving nice and early for my signing on time, so I could use the useless terminals. When the advisor then called my name out, they could see I was looking for work, even though the terminals produced crap results.....

Mac, if where you and your friend live is anything like Scunthorpe, then most job applications and/or company visits will be ignored or you'll be told to go and visit which ever agency has the contract to supply staff for them. For just about all jobs here in Scunthorpe, you have to go through an agency first. That led to a big argument between me and my advisor at 1 point, as she insisted that I accept and and all offers agencies made, despite them being for 1 day a week. My response was to point out, that working 1 day a week would leave me worse off, as the £5 I would get before my JSA was affected had to pay for food for work, travel to/from work and other incidental expenses accrued. I then said I would be happy to accept an agency job if they could offer me a minimum of 3 days a week, as that would get me off JSA, and I would be better off overall. For some strange reason, she didn't insist that I accept the odd day here and there form an agency after that ....

 

[mac]

David I don't know if he has to visit companies as well but how can they expect people to go round asking. My mate drives a JCB digger and because of the time of the year there is no work in March things will start up again and he will be back working. He is 55 years old so where could he go asking for work with no experience apart from diggers, I don't know how many digger firms there are in his area but there cannot be many and they will all be the same with lack of work due to winter.
I know the government had to stop people fiddling but with what I have been told in the last couple of days maybe they have gone to far.

 

[notadriver]

Are you working at the moment mac?

 

[mac]

Are you working at the moment mac?

Yes thanks are you?

 

[notadriver]

Well yes I work but was wondering if you could help your friend get a job at the place where you work?

 

[mac]

I don't work at a place as such, been there and got out when I could life's to important to be stuck working full time. I work for myself in summer I drive a combine on large farm done that for 34 years and enjoy every minute of it, I also rent out 7 houses and like to buy one to do up and sell or rent out once a year. I have an HGV licence and do odd Sundays when the pays higher at a couple of firms I know.
I don't earn a fortune but do have a good life with my wife.

 

[notadriver]

We were saying at work - you can't take it with you. That is a good life mac. Where does your friend live ?

 

[mac]

A village near Lincoln.

 

[Gathursty]

Nonetheless, I was trying to apply for so many jobs to fill up my jobsearch book that my applications were not good enough to get me a job!

I recall an article months ago about a former soldier looking for work who if you apply the maths was spending about 20 minutes a day on each application taking account of going to sleep and eating and then being surprised that he wasn't getting a look in. I deeply respect soldiers but if he applied for less jobs and spent more time on the application then obviously his impressive skills would come out more clearly.

 

[fowler9]

Was sent on a course recently which was actually fairly useful. The chap there totally disagreed with the job centre and said you should try and do 3 good applications a week as opposed to the crazy criteria they set for some of us. (Obviously I couldn't strictly follow his advice because I'd get sanctioned by the job centre).

Sorry Mac, I know things must be totally different for your mate given his situation. The best I can suggest is that your mate applies for anything. If his skills and experience don't meet the criteria he won't get the job but he will have done what the job centre asked.

God help us if IDS gets his way and we have to spend 35 hours a week applying. Every employer in the country will be swamped with completely unsuitable applications, it is almost like that now with the unrealistic targets.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Apologies for the thread hijack, I need to vent somewhere and there's nobody here to vent to!

Third application has just been denied... My most recent one was shut down because "my parents claimed child benefit while I was in education and that didn't expire until December 2nd".
They didn't.
I challenged that and got [paraphrased] "your parents were entitled to child benefit so that means you can't claim."
They were not.
I challenged that and I was asked by the patronizing worker if I was trying to defraud the DWP. :/

Through the appalling bureaucracy, conflicting advice, the feeling that the JobCentre tries to make people feel like criminals to discourage them from claiming; the only "good" experience from my frequent ventures over to the JobCentre were the G4S security guards. They were lovely, polite, and some even shared a bit of small talk, which cheered me up no end.

The whole JobCentre...mess feels a lot like Terry Gilliam's marvellous film "Brazil" except without the dark humour. Or any humour at all.

It's a good thing I only eat once every couple of days really.

 

[BlythPower]

God help us if IDS gets his way and we have to spend 35 hours a week applying. Every employer in the country will be swamped with completely unsuitable applications, it is almost like that now with the unrealistic targets.

Is there not some way that berk IDS can be slung in jail? What with the above, the waste of billions of pounds on Universal Credits and the obscene way his department treats the disabled, he really should be banged up where he can no longer persecute the most vulnerable members of society.

 

[ainsworth74]

Through the appalling bureaucracy, conflicting advice, the feeling that the JobCentre tries to make people feel like criminals to discourage them from claiming; the only "good" experience from my frequent ventures over to the JobCentre were the G4S security guards. They were lovely, polite, and some even shared a bit of small talk, which cheered me up no end.

If you haven't already go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau or a local Welfare Rights team.

Is there not some way that berk IDS can be slung in jail? What with the above, the waste of billions of pounds on Universal Credits and the obscene way his department treats the disabled, he really should be banged up where he can no longer persecute the most vulnerable members of society.

Whilst I dislike the guy with a passion and my faith that UC will work (let alone be fair) is near nil let's not blow it out of all proportion. It's 'only' millions so far (but there's still time)...

But as for the rest of that I agree wholeheartedly. If anyone really wants to get a feeling for how the DWP (and their contractors ATOS) feel about disabled people I suggest reading this report. This of course being driven by the DWP's targets (sorry I of course mean 'norms' as the DWP don't set targets) that they give ATOS regarding the number of people who should be getting ESA and it's various components.

 

[Butts]

Is there not some way that berk IDS can be slung in jail? What with the above, the waste of billions of pounds on Universal Credits and the obscene way his department treats the disabled, he really should be banged up where he can no longer persecute the most vulnerable members of society.

The most vulnerable are often those in work on low wages, not necessarily the "UB40" brigade

 

[LowLevel]

I used to work for the Job centre and I always did what I could for people. There were a lot of issues though and they don't treat their staff that brilliantly so you sort of expect issues. That probably explains why I bailed out in favour of the railways - far better. The one time I did sign on was 2008. Despite being a 19 year old drop out, the adviser left me alone and I had a job inside 8 weeks. I've since got several other jobs on my own terms so they are certainly out there.