Journey not showing on Trainline

[sdrennan]

I have to use Trainline for work but the journey I need seems to me missing
Booking from Buckley to East Didsbury (Via Liverpool Lime St)
26/11 @ 16:52
I can see journeys up to 13:52 then from 18:05.

Journey not showing on Trainline (Or other sites which use the same system) I can see on Nationrail OK

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't know why, but there are no Advance fares for this flow, only walk-ups (Anytime Day Single and 8A unrestricted Off Peak Return), and so the easiest thing to do is just book a different time and travel when you wish.

 

[Paul Kelly]

NRE shows two different itineraries. One via Bidston; the other via Shotton. The former is not a permitted route and NRE shows under the price "Ticket valid for this service only", which is NRE's indication that it is offering split tickets for a journey. The latter itinerary, although it follows a permitted route, takes almost an hour longer and ironically costs a lot more than the split ticket option NRE has offered for the first itinerary. See attached.



So to be clear, the reason the itinerary via Bidston and Liverpool is not showing on Trainline is because it's not a permitted route.

 

[alistairlees]

NRE shows two different itineraries. One via Bidston; the other via Shotton. The former is not a permitted route and NRE shows under the price "Ticket valid for this service only", which is NRE's indication that it is offering split tickets for a journey. The latter itinerary, although it follows a permitted route, takes almost an hour longer and ironically costs a lot more than the split ticket option NRE has offered for the first itinerary. See attached.

View attachment 55638

So to be clear, the reason the itinerary via Bidston and Liverpool is not showing on Trainline is because it's not a permitted route.

But via Bidston and Liverpool Lime St is valid on the 18.05 from Buckley according to NRE? Same route as the 16.52, just one change fewer (no need to change at Manchester).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does serve to rile when the railway says "you can't take the fastest route so ner". There really should be a through fare calculable for all routes.

 

[Paul Kelly]

But via Bidston and Liverpool Lime St is valid on the 18.05 from Buckley according to NRE? Same route as the 16.52, just one change fewer (no need to change at Manchester).

Hmm. The 16:52 itinerary takes the CLC route via Warrington, which is neither mapped nor the shortest route. The 18:05 itinerary takes the Chat Moss route via Earlestown, which brings you within 3 miles of the shortest route from Buckley to East Didsbury, and is thus permitted.

 

[sdrennan]

Just questions why it shows on national Rail website

 

[kieron]

The National Rail web site doesn't use the same criteria as Trainline when deciding what to show.

You know that there are suitable trains running between 2pm and 6pm. From what you said, you wouldn't have done had you relied on Trainline to tell you.

I wouldn't rely on National Rail to tell you what tickets to buy for those trains, though.

 

[yorkie]

Just questions why it shows on national Rail website

Either Trainline's supplier does not support "splits" or Trainline have chosen not to turn them on (we may never know which it is, but that doesn't really matter).

NRE's supplier is Silverrail whose IPTIS system does support "splits", if a customer chooses to turn it on, which NRE have done.

(Not only that, but there can be differences of interpretation between suppliers, as to whether or not a journey is valid on one ticket or not)

 

[sdrennan]

thanks all, I have solved my problem by splitting tickets at Liverpool. Interestingly the NT website refers to Transport For Wales which must use the same back end.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

thanks all, I have solved my problem by splitting tickets at Liverpool. Interestingly the NT website refers to Transport For Wales which must use the same back end.

Transport for Wales use the same backend as The Trainline. However National Rail Enquiries can sometimes succeed in linking through a request for multiple tickets to an external website.

 

[Jona26]

Could it be anything to do with the temporary timetable currently being run on TfW on some lines at the moment - including the Wrexham - Bidston?

The 16.52 from Buckley (?16.32 ex-Wrexham) is currently cancelled.

Could it have been amended in some planners but not others?

 

[krus_aragon]

Could it be anything to do with the temporary timetable currently being run on TfW on some lines at the moment - including the Wrexham - Bidston?

The 16.52 from Buckley (?16.32 ex-Wrexham) is currently cancelled.

Could it have been amended in some planners but not others?

As far as I know the trains are being cancelled on a day-by-day basis, according to rolling stock availability. It is possible that they have started planning for the 26th, which sees the last of the autumn rugby internationals in Cardiff (with associated crowds on the trains).

 

[Paul Kelly]

Could it be anything to do with the temporary timetable currently being run on TfW on some lines at the moment - including the Wrexham - Bidston?

Perhaps. At certain times of the day, the hourly train from Buckley to Shotton connects particularly badly into a direct Manchester train (e.g. arriving at the same time as it departs, as in the case of the 16:52), so it is often much quicker to go via Liverpool and this is the route journey planners will often default to. If the train was just a few minutes earlier then the quickest route would involve changing Shotton onto a train to Manchester.

When it then turns out that no fares are available via Liverpool (because it's not a permitted route), sometimes you will get no journeys at all returned, which can be very confusing.

 

[sdrennan]

Does anyone know
1. What is the likelihood of the temporary timetable still being in place next week?
2. If the disruption continue then I am sure they will let me travel on earlier train from Buckley but will anyone allow me to travel on earlier trains and connections from Liverpool/Manchester. I don't want to be late at destination but don't want to be hanging about for an extra hour in Liverpool either

 

[krus_aragon]

TfW said yesterday that their emergency timetable was now "until further notice" , so I think there's a good chance the Borderlands will still be on a two-hourly service.

You said you'd split your ticket at Liverpool. There are no advance fares for Buckley-Liverpool, so your ticket is valid for any train on that leg. What ticket do you have for the Liverpool-East Didsbury leg?

 

[sdrennan]

I have an advance Liverpool to manchester and a seperate advance Manchester to easr didsbury

 

[krus_aragon]

In that case you'll be expected to travel on the booked trains. One could always ask the guard, but I don't expect that they'd let you on, as from their perspective you're not delayed and have just turned up too early (for that leg).

I'd suggest watching TfW's timetable developments, and make tentative plans to visit a coffee shop in Liverpool to pass the time.