Jubilee Cities Announced

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Badger

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The new cities are Chelmsford (understandable), Perth (Scottish), and St Asaph...

Forgive me for being biased, but why is St Asaph, population 3,500, worthy of being a city over Dudley, population 195,000, or even Reading, 232,000?

...well, yes I know why, it had to be Welsh, I think. In which case, Wrexham would surely have been a better choice, with a borough of 130,000 and the fourth largest settlement in Wales.

I'm sorry, it just annoys me. St Asaph is now the smallest city in the UK, by a long way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_United_Kingdom
(Sort by size using the arrows)

Current smallest: Wells, 10,406.

Current smallest established since 1900: Lancaster, 46,000.

There are several villages near me which all have populations larger than St Asaph, I just don't understand the reasoning. :s

Oh well.
 
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andrew bell

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If I remember when the bidding process started they said 1 new city will be made in each country of the UK so Chelmsford was chosen as the English city, automatically ruling out Reading & MK (although for footballing reasons I would of given it to MK), Perth I think is understandable too (but I don't know the other bidding towns in Scotland) and St Asaph I admit is strange but could it be something to do with Chester, around 10 miles away already being a city and want to spread the cities around a bit more??
 

PR1Berske

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St Davids is smaller.


Middlesbrough aren't happy. They've made the point that their campaign Twitter account has more followers than St Asaph has population.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Why is city status now seen as a standard and not an honour? The more there are the less prestigious surely?

St Asaph? Now that did surprise me!
 

The Engineer

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Why is city status now seen as a standard and not an honour? The more there are the less prestigious surely?

St Asaph? Now that did surprise me!
St Asaph qualifies in the same way as St Davids - it has a cathederal and is a church administrative district. Which, after all, is how cities were originally defined in our fair isles!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Why is city status now seen as a standard and not an honour? The more there are the less prestigious surely?

St Asaph? Now that did surprise me!
Up to 1900, St Asaph was always referred to as a city but the 1911 edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica made specific reference to the link between between the possession of a cathedral and automatic entitlement to city status had been broken by 1900.

So after a gap of 112 years, the city status has now been restored to St Asaph.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The awarding of city status to tiny places should be debated at half time in the next Elgin City v Brechin City match
What may seem "tiny" to us may conceal 1400 years of historically deeply entrenched views of St Asaph being a fulcrum for certain North Wales institutions.

As it is said in other quarters....size isn't everything !!
 

martinsh

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The new cities are Chelmsford (understandable),
Why is Chelmsford "understandable" ?

To someone who visits the place fairly regularly, I have to say the place is basically a dump ! It has a pokey 2 platform station, and doesn't have a proper bus station or a proper football team.

I'm not sure of all the towns competing, but of the ones already mentioned in this thread, I would say Middlesborough, Milton Keynes and Reading were all far more suitable to become cities than Chelmsford !
 

andrew bell

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So in your eyes Martinsh to qualify to be a city you need a good bus station and a 'proper' football team, I'm sorry but even though I follow a league 1 team (Wycombe Wanderers) I think its harsh to say Chelmsford doesn't have a proper team, they regularly compete at the top end of the Blue Square Bet South division (2 below the football league) and average around 900 fans every home game, if that isn't a proper football team please tell me what is
 

Badger

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I say Chelmsford is understandable as someone who's never actually been there :p The only things I know about it is it has a university (Anglia Ruskin?) and served as the seat of government during the peasant's revolt, which is a bit special... while maybe not as significant as others in the list it's definately more of a city than say, St Asaph, in my eyes. But then maybe that's a silly idea of what a city should be, since

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Mills,_Tennessee

...has a population of... 296!
 

Oracle

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Boasting ability...Southampton was appointed a city in 1964 because of its transport links, etc. but had been the County Town of Hampshire until 1959 when it lost out to Winchester. In the past the grant by way of letters patent of Borough status was also arguably a 'boast' or as it was called at the time, 'civic pride'.

I am surprised that Guildford, with its cathedral was not in the running.
 

martinsh

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So in your eyes Martinsh to qualify to be a city you need a good bus station and a 'proper' football team, I'm sorry but even though I follow a league 1 team (Wycombe Wanderers) I think its harsh to say Chelmsford doesn't have a proper team, they regularly compete at the top end of the Blue Square Bet South division (2 below the football league) and average around 900 fans every home game, if that isn't a proper football team please tell me what is
Well compare Chelmsford City with the following

Reading - Championship - maybe Premier League next seasom
Middlesborough - Championship
Milton Keynes - Championship I - in running for promotion

As for attendances of 900 - well Nantwich Town get around 600, and I'm certainly not proposing that Nantwich be awarded city status !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I say Chelmsford is understandable as someone who's never actually been there :p The only things I know about it is it has a university (Anglia Ruskin?) and served as the seat of government during the peasant's revolt
Well Reading (at least) has a proper University not a souped-up Polytechnic !
 

Ivo

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The new cities are Chelmsford (understandable), Perth (Scottish), and St Asaph.
First of all, they were supposed to be announcing only ONE city from the entire United Kingdom, not one from each of England, Scotland and Wales. Having done so though, Perth and St Asaph were shoo-ins in practice.

Anyhow, on to the English choice. Far from the best available, even in its own county; in fact, location and central layout aside, Chelmsford had the worst case of the three in Essex. But even beyond its own county (which you might remember me saying would be likely to "win" a city this year some time ago ;)), there are quite a few better contenders, such as Reading, MK, Middlesbrough and Doncaster. That isn't to say it didn't have a strong case though, which it most certainly did - especially in comparison to some of the smaller places.

Whoever made this decision probably did not make it in the fairest means possible. If nothing else, Chelmsford winning means that the other two contenders in Essex (the other two being Southend and Colchester), both of which have stronger cases, will not win City Status for a long time to come...

Having said all that though, remember this thread I made last year?

The awarding of city status to tiny places should be debated at half time in the next Elgin City v Brechin City match
Elgin I can understand, but Brechin were so named because they were formed on City Road ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am surprised that Guildford, with its cathedral was not in the running.
Cathedrals mean nothing these days. Guildford otherwise has a very poor case in my opinion.
 
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Eagle

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Reading - Championship - maybe Premier League next season
Middlesborough - Championship
Milton Keynes - Championship I - in running for promotion
I wasn't aware that Wigan, West Bromwich or Sunderland were cities, yet they have Premier League teams.

And what about

Cambridge (Conference)
Bath (Conference)
Gloucester (Conference North)
Salisbury (Conference South)
Truro (Conference South)

All historical cities, all reasonably large settlements...
 

MidnightFlyer

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I wasn't aware that Wigan, West Bromwich or Sunderland were cities, yet they have Premier League teams.
Sunderland is ;)

Try Bolton or Blackburn though (for a few years the latter used to be the highest positioned town football team in the country).
 

Eagle

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Of course, prominence of football team does not equate to population size; Bolton (Premier League) has 5,000 people less than Poole (Rymans League, First Division, South and West—seven tiers below Bolton).
 

MidnightFlyer

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Of course, prominence of football team does not equate to population size; Bolton (Premier League) has 5,000 people less than Poole (Rymans League, First Division, South and West—seven tiers below Bolton).
Indeed, look at Rushden & Diamonds (sadly no more), a former football league team (right up until the mid-2010s), based in Irthlingborough, Northants, with a population of just 6,179.

Anyway, back on topic...
 

tbtc

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I wasn't aware that Wigan, West Bromwich or Sunderland were cities, yet they have Premier League teams
Sunderland is ;)
They had to "upgrade" St Peter's Church to a "Cathedral" to get Sunderland to qualify, which shows what a nonsense the whole "city" thing is.

What may seem "tiny" to us may conceal 1400 years of historically deeply entrenched views of St Asaph being a fulcrum for certain North Wales institutions.

As it is said in other quarters....size isn't everything !!
I had to check whether the 1400 related to a year or to the total population :lol:

If St Asaph is a City then the whole thing is a charade - I remember when it used to mean something to be a city and wasn't handed out freely.
 

Ivo

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Of course, prominence of football team does not equate to population size; Bolton (Premier League) has 5,000 people less than Poole (Rymans League, First Division, South and West—seven tiers below Bolton).
Indeed, look at Rushden & Diamonds (sadly no more), a former football league team (right up until the mid-2010s), based in Irthlingborough, Northants, with a population of just 6,179.
Gretna anyone...?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Of course, prominence of football team does not equate to population size; Bolton (Premier League) has 5,000 people less than Poole (Rymans League, First Division, South and West—seven tiers below Bolton).
Just look at some of the teams in the Conference Premiership and their population, York, etc.....yet Forest Green Rovers population size is amazingly low in comparison.
 

Eagle

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If St Asaph is a City then the whole thing is a charade - I remember when it used to mean something to be a city and wasn't handed out freely.
It used to mean "has a historic cathedral"... which St Asaph certainly does.


City status was first diluted when in the early 20th century it was decided to hand it out free to every urban agglomeration with a population above 200,000; this included such places as Glasgow, Birmingham, Coventry, Liverpool and Cardiff (which replaced the former City of Llandaf).
 
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