July 2012 South Wales electrification

[150001]

With this I assume the local ATW services be needing new stock! I would think that the Pacers would be finally withdrawn one or two 150s then could be sent up north to replace a few Pacers. In terms of electric stock I think the Class 377 or a Class 378(with better interiors!) would be suitable. Bombardier need some work so this is a good chance. What's everyone else's idea? Bearing in mind that there are also new trains from CSR and Hitachi becoming an option.

 

[Drsatan]

According to today's announcement, electrification will be completed by 2018, so any decision as to whether to use cascaded stock or to order new trains will have to be made in the next couple of years.

If the decision is made to use existing stock, 315s used on Liverpool Street to Shenfield stoppers will be cascaded to ATW. Since there won't be enough 315s to replace the 15 142s, 15 143s ATW has, and however many 150s are used on Valley Lines services, it would make sense for whoever wins the Greater Anglia franchise in 2014 to order another batch of electrostars, meaning that all 315s can be cascaded to ATW, since 317s can be cascaded to Liverpool Street - Chingford and other routes worked by these units. Then, all Pacers used on Valley Lines services can be withdrawn and 15 150s can be cascaded to whoever needs them most, which will almost certainly be Northern, since by 2018 the Pacers will be one year away from compulsory withdrawal.

If the decision is made to use new stock, the stock Bombardier will tender will probably be identical versions of whatever trains it proposes for Crossrail. Hopefully the decision will be made to lengthen platforms where appropriate so Valley Lines trains can run in eight-car formations.

 

[Class377/5]

With this I assume the local ATW services be needing new stock! I would think that the Pacers would be finally withdrawn one or two 150s then could be sent up north to replace a few Pacers. In terms of electric stock I think the Class 377 or a Class 378(with better interiors!) would be suitable. Bombardier need some work so this is a good chance. What's everyone else's idea? Bearing in mind that there are also new trains from CSR and Hitachi becoming an option.

The Electrostar is dead. Only reason Southern are getting some is because it's a run on and even then it's a new design in old clothing.

Bombardier will be offering Adventra units just like it did on Thameslink, however they will be a fair bit shorter.

Will the Valley's need gangwayed stock?

 

[D365]

I believe there are 30 150s in use by ATW currently, assuming that most or all operate Cardiff Valley. And Bombardier have never announced a decision to stop building Electrostars, have they?

 

[150001]

I never heard an end to the Electrostars either! They'll still offer it as the Aventra isn't gangwayed unless there is a new one on the drawing boards. The Aventra would be perfect and really if they were to cascade the 32 year old 315s, you'd be needing new trains more than likely soon after. CSRE could also come in for this too with the Pulsar, I think :

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1...&w=555&h=416&ei=jBcFUPHgBoXB0gXCvqXWBw&zoom=1

 

[swt_passenger]

I never heard an end to the Electrostars either! They'll still offer it as the Aventra isn't gangwayed unless there is a new one on the drawing boards. The Aventra would be perfect and really if they were to cascade the 32 year old 315s, you'd be needing new trains more than likely soon after.

Aventra replacing Electrostar for all new contracts after the 379 has been in the rail mags.

But who says Aventra doesn't have a gangway - IIRC they said that about Turbostars until they suddenly appeared with gangways. The ends of Bombardier units are modular, there's no earthly reason why a gangwayed version won't be offered on the modern equivalent.

 

[sprinterguy]

According to today's announcement, electrification will be completed by 2018, so any decision as to whether to use cascaded stock or to order new trains will have to be made in the next couple of years.

If the decision is made to use existing stock, 315s used on Liverpool Street to Shenfield stoppers will be cascaded to ATW. Since there won't be enough 315s to replace the 15 142s, 15 143s ATW has, and however many 150s are used on Valley Lines services...

Do you not think so? I believe that there are about 15 x 142s, 15 x 143s and 15 - 20 x 150s presently used on the Valley lines, although this total may not include the Maesteg and Ebbw Vale routes. Bear in mind that even a shortened, 3-car 315 is practically the same length as a pair of Pacers, and probably has a slightly increased seating capacity to boot. If it is assumed that there is a minimal amount of doubling up of 315s and that they operate only as individual 3-car units, then that might only require about 30, perhaps a total of 40, trains: There are plenty of doubled up 142 and 143 formations evident on the Valley Lines, and even doubled up 150s at times. If the 315s were kept as four car units, then that is pretty much ensuring that every train has the equivalent capacity of a pair of 150s.

I don’t know how many 315s are expected to be freed up by Crossrail, but releasing only half the fleet of 315s for the Valley Lines doesn’t sound like too unrealistic an aspiration. Perhaps another ten or so trains would be needed for Maesteg and Ebbw Vale, etc, and it is to be hoped that the next incumbent of the Greater Anglia franchise would see fit to replace the remaining 315s on West Anglia Metro services: They could even be replaced by 317s displaced from Thameslink, surely.
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I believe there are 30 150s in use by ATW currently, assuming that most or all operate Cardiff Valley. And Bombardier have never announced a decision to stop building Electrostars, have they?

There are thirty two 150s operated by ATW. They do get about away from the Valleys as well. There's one on the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch, another on Crewe to Chester (Ok, so that's only two units), and a few operating west of Swansea. Do 150s see any use down the Heart of Wales line, or is that still 153 territory?

 

[Greenback]

There are thirty two 150s operated by ATW. They do get about away from the Valleys as well. There's one on the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch, another on Crewe to Chester (Ok, so that's only two units), and a few operating west of Swansea. Do 150s see any use down the Heart of Wales line, or is that still 153 territory?

The 150's can be seen on the HoW line. They also work the train I normally catch home from work, the afternoon Gloucester - Fishguard service. Don't forget they also substitute for 175's too!

 

[SprinterMan]

There are thirty two 150s operated by ATW. They do get about away from the Valleys as well. There's one on the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch, another on Crewe to Chester (Ok, so that's only two units), and a few operating west of Swansea. Do 150s see any use down the Heart of Wales line, or is that still 153 territory?

They operate the HoW line alongside the 153s.
Adam

 

[150001]

(SWT Passenger) Thanks for clearing that up for me! The Class 317s could be a good unit to use on the lines, if they were refurbished up to a Class 455 standard. I wouldn't really want the 315s, but better than a Pacer!

 

[sprinterguy]

(SWT Passenger) Thanks for clearing that up for me! The Class 317s could be a good unit to use on the lines, if they were refurbished up to a Class 455 standard. I wouldn't really want the 315s, but better than a Pacer!

If the 315s were refurbished to the same standard as the ex-Valley Lines 150s, then I think that they would be reasonably pleasant. I don’t know whether their remaining life span after displacement by Crossrail would warrant such work being carried out though.

 

[150001]

Actually thats true. If you fitted a good quality interior, who minds! They actually seem quite good but I've never ridden one, but they sound quite lively on videos and clips.

 

[anthony263]

(SWT Passenger) Thanks for clearing that up for me! The Class 317s could be a good unit to use on the lines, if they were refurbished up to a Class 455 standard. I wouldn't really want the 315s, but better than a Pacer!

Which is what Bombardier are planning on doing to one of the off lease class 317/7's (See latest version of Rail Magazine) and Alstom have suggested doing something similar to the class 319's which will be operated by Northern.

There has also been talk going around that the class 313's peresently being used by Southern could be getting re-fitted with Pantographs and cascaed to south wales although Southern will have to find stock to replace them.

Personally I think class 315's would be ideal for the valley lines with something like the class 319's operating services to Swansea, Bristol, Maesteg & Ebbw Vale.

 

[34Short]

Hopefully the decision will be made to lengthen platforms where appropriate so Valley Lines trains can run in eight-car formations.

If only! Since 2006, we've had platform lengthening to accommodate 6-car trains.

And where are those 6 car trains? I can't see any...

 

[Penmorfa]

They operate the HoW line alongside the 153s.
Adam

Also two are used on Wrexham - Bidston services

 

[Peter Sarf]

I was going to witter on about Londons units generally being more than the three coaches long, which seems to be more use for the valleys, but started a new thread instead.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1154771#post1154771