Junction indicators

[Minilad]

Brian,

Just remind me if that applies at Whitacre Jct as well ?

Main aspect to Nuneaton. Feather for the slow lines

 

[Old Timer]

Main aspect to Nuneaton. Feather for the slow lines

Thanks, Chap, its been a long, long time since I was last there.

Its funny how little things like that start to fade.

 

[Zoe]

Colwich Junction on the down fast is an unusual one as Stafford is the diverging route at 65 mph with a feather and the through route to Stone is 85 mph but immediately beyond the junction the line speed on the the Stone line is 45 mph so you would actually have to pass the junction at a slower speed on the through route.

 

[kettle8632]

I always tend to think of it as the Junction indicator is for the slower or secondary routing. I am struggling to think of somewhere where I get a feather for a higher speed routing

Another example is Didcot West curve Junction for trains on the up from Oxford. As seen here at the 40 second mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELjC2BbEfv0

 

[S19]

Used to in VXC days. Not anymore unfortunately. I do miss Mick's Hut and the fantastic Kebabs !

Sorry for the hijack OP but..

I don't live in Preston but often have a jolly down in the car for a Mick's Hut kebab. Legendary! Real men's portions haha!

And back on topic...

 

[Saltleyman]

Brian,

Just remind me if that applies at Whitacre Jct as well ?

Yes it does OT ,20mph towards Kingsbury, 30mph(may have altered) towards
Daw Mill/Nuneaton, Main aspect towards Daw Mill, line turns off to the right, J1 indicator towards Kingsbury, nearly straight ahead.

 

[Old Timer]

Yes it does OT ,20mph towards Kingsbury, 30mph(may have altered) towards
Daw Mill/Nuneaton, Main aspect towards Daw Mill, line turns off to the right, J1 indicator towards Kingsbury, nearly straight ahead.

Thanks, again chap. Lookout for my 45s on The Midland pictures coming shortly

 

[TomBoyRacer]

Two examples spring to mind.
Fairwood Jn outside Westbury will give a no.1 route for the station even though it's mostly straight on ( trackwork was slued here I think because the avoider came later)
Penwithers Jn, Truro. Trains for Falmouth get the No.1 even though it's straight on again. I think the line to Penzance is 80 while straight on is in the region of 40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom1040/6088729366/

 

[DavidBusDriver]

But as a complete corollary I find to the junction indicator being for the slower speed diverging route - why not try the approach to Tulse Hill on the Down Holborn - going into the Down Platform Loop for Platform 2, you get MA + Pos. 4 20mph through the crossover, and if routed 'straight on' onto the Down Portsmouth for Platform 4, you get the MA only... at 15mph!!!

 

[yorkie]

Colwich Junction on the down fast is an unusual one as Stafford is the diverging route at 65 mph with a feather and the through route to Stone is 85 mph but immediately beyond the junction the line speed on the the Stone line is 45 mph so you would actually have to pass the junction at a slower speed on the through route.

Where did you get told this, out of interest? I am assured by a Virgin driver that the speed of the junction toward Stone is 45 (so it's not faster to Stone than to Stafford), and he thinks a feather is used for both routes*, and immediately after the junction the speed raises to 50mph, then 60 and so on, toward Stone.

(* Though as he works the route that requires a left feather he isn't 100% sure off the top of his head that there is a right feather)

 

[Zoe]

Where did you get told this, out of interest? I am assured by a Virgin driver that the speed of the junction toward Stone is 45 (so it's not faster to Stone than to Stafford), and a feather is used for both routes (there is no straight on unfeathered option), and immediately after the junction the speed raises to 50mph, then 60 and so on, on the Stone line.

On the Down Fast, the 45 restriction starts almost immediately beyond the points on the Stone route and then increases to 50 once the line has crossed the Up Fast. The line speed though is technically 85 at the points. This is why Stafford is the diverging route at 65 with a feather and Stone the through route at 85 with no feather even though as I say there is a 45 mph restriction almost immediately beyond the points. If there have been some changes to this then the original setup (installed after the four tracking from Tamworth to Armitage can't have lasted long.

 

[notadriver]

But how did you come by this detailed line speed information ?

 

[Minilad]

Sectional appendix I would imagine. Only other way would be to look out for the PSR signs when travelling

 

[Old Timer]

But how did you come by this detailed line speed information ?

All line speed information is contained within the relevant Sectional Appendix.

I don't know if this happens now, but in BR days the various Road Learning schools produced their own detailed line publications, some Schools (London / Birmingham Divisions) even produced a booklet showed a drawing of individual junction signals.

 

[notadriver]

Sectional appendix I would imagine. Only other way would be to look out for the PSR signs when travelling

Nowadays you can't stick your head out the window on anything but HSTs so thats difficult.

I've found it really difficult to get hold of a sectional appendix; many tocs dont give one to guards.

 

[jopsuk]

I don't have a link to it right now, but buried on the Network Rail site there's a publicly accessible copy, dating from 2009, of the sectional appendix for the whole country.

 

[CarterUSM]

Nowadays you can't stick your head out the window on anything but HSTs so thats difficult.

I've found it really difficult to get hold of a sectional appendix; many tocs dont give one to guards.

I find that incredible, how do you route learn?

 

[Minilad]

I was under the impression that SAs were a part of guards equipment and were a required issue. They certainly are here.
If you want any SAs then all you have to do is go on the Wilsons Printers website. They will happily sell you any you want

 

[notadriver]

I find that incredible, how do you route learn?

Well Lorol guards don't get one. I can't remember on SET - they gave you a route diagram but not an SA and questions regarding line speeds were not on the guards assessment paper.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't have a link to it right now, but buried on the Network Rail site there's a publicly accessible copy, dating from 2009, of the sectional appendix for the whole country.

Here it is: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... route mileage, Permissible line speeds&root=

 

[Old Timer]

I was under the impression that SAs were a part of guards equipment and were a required issue. They certainly are here.
If you want any SAs then all you have to do is go on the Wilsons Printers website. They will happily sell you any you want

The only problem then would be gaining access to the WON/PON in order to keep them up to date.

 

[455driver]

The SA is usually so inaccurate that it is pointless, some companies now do their own "route maps" which are much more detailed and accurate.

The last time I looked at the SA for my area there were sidings on there that had been closed and lifted 4 years beforehand, the updates had been sent through when the sidings closed but they had not been actioned, and as far as I know they still havent.

 

[driver9000]

All of our Guards get a Sectional Appendix and the updates are provided in a supplement to the PON and the WON. We get a supplement with each PON.

I was under the impression that anyone involved with operating the railway ie Drivers, Guards, Signalmen etc had to have a copy of the appendix - at least the sections of it they worked over. When I was issued with mine and the reissues I had to sign to say I had received it. How do Guards who don't get one keep up to date with changes to their routes and local instructions?