Kennington Rezoned

Horizon22

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Noticed this the other day - good news for those using the station into Central London although it doesn't seem to change the travelcard cost at all. Seems this was part of the Northern Line extension agreement.


Commuters travelling to zone one stations by tube from Kennington will see their fare reduced from Sunday after the station gets re-zoned.

The change sees it go from being a Zone 2 station to Zone 1/2, meaning a single pay-as-you-go fare will be reduced to £2.40 at any time of day.

The move comes as part of Transport for London’s preparations to open its extension to the Northern Line later this year.
 
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Busaholic

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Noticed this the other day - good news for those using the station into Central London although it doesn't seem to change the travelcard cost at all. Seems this was part of the Northern Line extension agreement.

Because otherwise it would have been cheaper to travel from Battersea or Nine Elms to a Zone 1 station beyond Kennington than to Kennington itself! You could say it's because of the political decision to make Battersea and Nine Elms Zone 1 stations rather than Zone 2 in order to facilitate sales of exorbitantly priced flats to non-doms for snobbery reasons. Boris Johnson has form as long as an arm on this sort of thing!
 

Horizon22

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Because otherwise it would have been cheaper to travel from Battersea or Nine Elms to a Zone 1 station beyond Kennington than to Kennington itself! You could say it's because of the political decision to make Battersea and Nine Elms Zone 1 stations rather than Zone 2 in order to facilitate sales of exorbitantly priced flats to non-doms for snobbery reasons. Boris Johnson has form as long as an arm on this sort of thing!

I suppose it was also because the American Embassy was meant to open there too. All very political in that area and focus of some of the protests regarding "affordable housing" in this country!
 

Snow1964

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If you see the amended zones on a map (a proper one to scale, not diagramatic) you would think this was borderline (pun intended) railway gerrymandering

The new zones are even more weird if you draw a series of concentric circles from the London zero milepost at Charing Cross.

A single centre is perhaps unfair, because the early versions of zones (in Capitalcard days) had 2 central zones (West and East) roughly centred on Piccadilly Circus and St Paul’s Cathedral (I forget exact locations). But now there is talk of having a third centre (near Canary Wharf) so the map looks even more irregular

I don’t know if an up to date, scale (not diagrammatic) map of zones exists, but if anyone has link to one, it would help.
 

MikeWh

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Noticed this the other day - good news for those using the station into Central London
Unless they have a railcard and are travelling in during the afternoon peak.
although it doesn't seem to change the travelcard cost at all
It won't. There is no zone 1 travelcard, despite what TfL fare tables say, it's a zone 1-2 travelcard.
Seems this was part of the Northern Line extension agreement.
Yes it is. It is necessary to ensure that the extension isn't a zone 1 island requiring travel through zone 2 to get to the rest.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Unless they have a railcard and are travelling in during the afternoon peak.

It won't. There is no zone 1 travelcard, despite what TfL fare tables say, it's a zone 1-2 travelcard.

Yes it is. It is necessary to ensure that the extension isn't a zone 1 island requiring travel through zone 2 to get to the rest.

Although a slight sideways move even though it was once part of London Underground, I believe Shoreditch High Street is a Zone 1 island in that to reach it, the stations surrounding it are in Zone 2.

Has any consideration been given to make Shoreditch High Street Zone 1/2 like how Kennington is now?
 

MikeWh

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Although a slight sideways move even though it was once part of London Underground, I believe Shoreditch High Street is a Zone 1 island in that to reach it, the stations surrounding it are in Zone 2.

Has any consideration been given to make Shoreditch High Street Zone 1/2 like how Kennington is now?
Trying not to go too far off topic.

Shoreditch High Street and Hoxton are both in zone 1, the latter is zone 1/2. It's considered similar to Fenchurch Street which is technically a zone 1 island but a destination in itself. The sideways move made the new station considerably closer to Liverpool Street and would have resulted in a massive revenue loss if it had stayed in zone 2.

We're also talking about the opposite situation. Kennington is extending zone 1 further out while Shoreditch High Street would be shrinking it.
 

Aictos

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One thing I don't understand, as it's gone from a Zone 2 to a Zone 1/2 station then how come the fares are cheaper?
 

Horizon22

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One thing I don't understand, as it's gone from a Zone 2 to a Zone 1/2 station then how come the fares are cheaper?
Zone 1-1 will be cheaper than Zone 2-1, but only very slightly.
 

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Because otherwise it would have been cheaper to travel from Battersea or Nine Elms to a Zone 1 station beyond Kennington than to Kennington itself!
It wouldn’t have meant this. You pay the fare for the zones you pass through, rather than the zone your origin is in and your destination is in; so if Kennington remained in Zone 2, then it’d have meant that customers travelling to anywhere from the branch (except the people making the short journey between the two stations) would have needed a Z1-2 fare, making the purpose of putting the new branch in Z1 largely pointless.
 

Taunton

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You could say it's because of the political decision to make Battersea and Nine Elms Zone 1 stations rather than Zone 2 in order to facilitate sales of exorbitantly priced flats to non-doms for snobbery reasons.
I don't want to get into the politics side of this, but am disappointed that after all the effort (including of course the Northern Line extension) to support that big development, the investors mentioned are commonly choosing not to even get any tenants into the properties, which increasingly is tied up with red tape, costs, and managing agents scooping much of the rental income margin anyway, but choosing to leave the properties empty long term, just relying on the increase in asset value of the house. Being in a high-rise makes them pretty secure.
 

davews

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When I mistakingly got lost in the Nine Elms development a couple of weeks ago, trying to find my way to Vauxhall (!) it seems the most unsightly housing development I have ever seen and currently just a huge building site. I did pass a few people who looked as if they may have been prospective owners but maybe that was wishful thinking. I certainly wouldn't want to live there, tube station or not.
 

telstarbox

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I don't want to get into the politics side of this, but am disappointed that after all the effort (including of course the Northern Line extension) to support that big development, the investors mentioned are commonly choosing not to even get any tenants into the properties, which increasingly is tied up with red tape, costs, and managing agents scooping much of the rental income margin anyway, but choosing to leave the properties empty long term, just relying on the increase in asset value of the house. Being in a high-rise makes them pretty secure.
Hopefully as London house prices are flat at the moment they might sell up <D
 

Mikey C

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Geoff Marshall has done a good video on this, and the mess it's made of the tube and rail maps!

 

Busaholic

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It wouldn’t have meant this. You pay the fare for the zones you pass through, rather than the zone your origin is in and your destination is in; so if Kennington remained in Zone 2, then it’d have meant that customers travelling to anywhere from the branch (except the people making the short journey between the two stations) would have needed a Z1-2 fare, making the purpose of putting the new branch in Z1 largely pointless.
I probably didn't express the point I was trying to make very well, as I agree completely with the point you make!

I don't want to get into the politics side of this, but am disappointed that after all the effort (including of course the Northern Line extension) to support that big development, the investors mentioned are commonly choosing not to even get any tenants into the properties, which increasingly is tied up with red tape, costs, and managing agents scooping much of the rental income margin anyway, but choosing to leave the properties empty long term, just relying on the increase in asset value of the house. Being in a high-rise makes them pretty secure.
From what you say (I've not lived in London for a long time, nor could ever afford to do so again) the extension may be one of the least-used sections of line on London Underground. Imo Sadiq Khan should have mothballed it on first election 4 years ago. It was an unashamedly political decision by Mayor Johnson to go ahead with it, as it wasn't on TfL's own published list of Top 10 projects.
 
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Arthington

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I probably didn't express the point I was trying to make very well, as I agree completely with the point you make!


From what you say (I've not lived in London for a long time, nor could ever afford to do so again) the extension may be one of the least-used sections of line on London Underground. Imo Sadiq Khan should have mothballed it on first election 4 years ago. It was an unashamedly political decision by Mayor Johnson to go ahead with it, as it wasn't on TfL's own published list of Top 10 projects.
I've got to say I would disagree. I live in the Clapham/Battersea area and purposely avoid my closest tube station (Clapham Common) with a passion due to the chaos in peak times. Albeit this was pre-COVID.

But I reckon Battersea Power Station will become a popular station to join the Underground network for a large catchment area. Even if it isn't servicing the masses of new-builds in the area.
 

Cdd89

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I know this is a silly question, since everything I’ve read indicates otherwise — but with all the map trouble being highlighted, is it absolutely certain that Battersea / Nine Elms will not end up as boundary zone 1/2 stations too?
 
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Taunton

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I wonder how far the extension was into its project in November 2018, when Crossrail was meant to have started service. Had the tunnelling even begun? It's extraordinary that it's going to start service first, with all the bits that Crossrail still seems unable to manage/complete (automatic trains; station fire regs compliance, etc).
 

Surreytraveller

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It wouldn’t have meant this. You pay the fare for the zones you pass through, rather than the zone your origin is in and your destination is in; so if Kennington remained in Zone 2, then it’d have meant that customers travelling to anywhere from the branch (except the people making the short journey between the two stations) would have needed a Z1-2 fare, making the purpose of putting the new branch in Z1 largely pointless.
Not necessarily, unless you hold a paper ticket. With Oyster/Contactless, you pay for the zones it is assumed you travel through. Which is why you can travel the long way round on Waterloo Circulars, and not pay for all the zones you traverse!
 

Ianno87

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But I reckon Battersea Power Station will become a popular station to join the Underground network for a large catchment area. Even if it isn't servicing the masses of new-builds in the area.

Stands a chance of being a half decent bus interchange for routes from the Clapham/Wandsworth direction, and a tube route to Battersea Park (the actual park)

My prediction is "steady" ridership, probably akin to the southern end of the Bakerloo line.
 

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Not necessarily, unless you hold a paper ticket. With Oyster/Contactless, you pay for the zones it is assumed you travel through. Which is why you can travel the long way round on Waterloo Circulars, and not pay for all the zones you traverse!
If Kennington was in Zone 2 then there would be no logical way to get from Battersea / Nine Elms to anywhere north of, without going via zone 2, so it would charge the fare via Zone 2.
 

Surreytraveller

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If Kennington was in Zone 2 then there would be no logical way to get from Battersea / Nine Elms to anywhere north of, without going via zone 2, so it would charge the fare via Zone 2.
There is no technical reason why that could not be the exception!
 

MikeWh

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Not necessarily, unless you hold a paper ticket. With Oyster/Contactless, you pay for the zones it is assumed you travel through. Which is why you can travel the long way round on Waterloo Circulars, and not pay for all the zones you traverse!
This is not the same thing at all. There is only one way to get from Nine Elms to north of Kennington so that is how they would charge it. If they could ignore the fact that you've gone through a station then they would do it for Shoreditch High Street.
 

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