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Kennington Rezoned

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Surreytraveller

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This is not the same thing at all. There is only one way to get from Nine Elms to north of Kennington so that is how they would charge it. If they could ignore the fact that you've gone through a station then they would do it for Shoreditch High Street.
They could charge the fare to ignore the fact you've gone through Kennington if they so wished. And Shoreditch High Street was placed in Zone 1 specifically so they could charge extra, otherwise they would have placed it in Zone 2
Changing Kennington to a joint Zone 1/2 station is to prevent any confusion, and to prevent people winging about the Shoreditch scenario!
 
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MikeWh

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They could charge the fare to ignore the fact you've gone through Kennington if they so wished.
Do you have any concrete proof that that is the case?
And Shoreditch High Street was placed in Zone 1 specifically so they could charge extra, otherwise they would have placed it in Zone 2
Shoreditch High Street (SDC) had to be in zone 1 or there would have been massive revenue loss from South, East and North London. The new station is significantly nearer to Liverpool Street than the old one was, and a lot more accessible being a through station.
 

Surreytraveller

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Do you have any concrete proof that that is the case?

Shoreditch High Street (SDC) had to be in zone 1 or there would have been massive revenue loss from South, East and North London. The new station is significantly nearer to Liverpool Street than the old one was, and a lot more accessible being a through station.
They set the fares, so there's nothing technically stopping them from doing that

There's other examples on the system of fares being other than what they should be
 

Starmill

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Unless they have a railcard and are travelling in during the afternoon peak.
I think that this is worthy of note might have been a discussion point in the past, or subject of complaints here or to your site.

The example in my mind is someone with a railcard discount on Oyster at Earl's Court going to Monument on a weekday PM peak. This costs £2.40 because one cannot choose to 'travel' through more zones rather than fewer if it would make the journey cheaper. In that case however one can walk 5 minutes around the corner to West Brompton and oh look, the fare drops to £1.65 (on today's prices anyway)! I am not sure that anyone accustomed to using Kennington would have as easy a workaround?
 

MikeWh

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They set the fares, so there's nothing technically stopping them from doing that

There's other examples on the system of fares being other than what they should be
Is that your opinion, or do you have concrete proof?

Can you outline any other examples?

I am not sure that anyone accustomed to using Kennington would have as easy a workaround?
They'd have to walk to Oval, which is a bit further than West Brompton.
 

Surreytraveller

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Is that your opinion, or do you have concrete proof?

Can you outline any other examples?
Norwood Junction to Greenwich, tapping the pink reader at Canada Water, is assumed to go via National Rail at London Bridge, even though tapping the pink reader proves you didn't (although that was some time ago - don't know whether that is still the case).
So what a map shows, the actual system can be configured differently. The computer won't know you have to go through Zone 2 to travel between two Zone 1 stations unless you tell it.
Otherwise how would it know you have to go through SDC (Shoreditch High Street) to go from one Zone 2 station to another?
 

MikeWh

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Norwood Junction to Greenwich, tapping the pink reader at Canada Water, is assumed to go via National Rail at London Bridge, even though tapping the pink reader proves you didn't (although that was some time ago - don't know whether that is still the case).
There is only one defined route for Norwood Junction to Greenwich so it doesn't matter what pink readers you touch. Pink readers and OSIs only affect the fare if the route has been defined in the database.
So what a map shows, the actual system can be configured differently. The computer won't know you have to go through Zone 2 to travel between two Zone 1 stations unless you tell it.
Otherwise how would it know you have to go through SDC (Shoreditch High Street) to go from one Zone 2 station to another?
Well obviously. But look at this the other way, if they start ignoring zones travelled through they will get inundated with complaints from other users. The system is consistent, you will always be charged for every zone travelled through on the most likely default route, or the route actually taken where that is defined separately.
 

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Norwood Junction to Greenwich, tapping the pink reader at Canada Water, is assumed to go via National Rail at London Bridge, even though tapping the pink reader proves you didn't (although that was some time ago - don't know whether that is still the case)
There are a great many cases where you're charged a fare that's higher than expected with the number of zones you actually use. On one occasion I found this out myself I travelled from Barking to Essex Road changing at Blackhorse Road and Highbury & Islington with appropriate pink taps. I was charged for travel via zone 1. When I wrote to query this, highlighting that I'd done the same thing but between Barking and Highbury & Islington only, i.e. without continuing to Essex Road, and had then been charged the non zone one fare, the response was simply that I'd been charged the correct fare for my journey and if I wanted the lower fare I'd need to go via Stratford. I didn't do so in future because it felt less convenient to me to go that way than changing at Blackhorse Road.

There is only one defined route for Norwood Junction to Greenwich so it doesn't matter what pink readers you touch. Pink readers and OSIs only affect the fare if the route has been defined in the database.
At a guess presumably the cheaper route from Norwood Junction to Greenwich avoiding zone one, similarly with the one from Barking to Essex Road, could in fact be added if the correct person were spoken to rather than dealing with the customer service.
 
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MikeWh

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At a guess presumably the cheaper route from Norwood Junction to Greenwich avoiding zone one, similarly with the one from Barking to Essex Road, could in fact be added if the correct person were spoken to rather than dealing with the customer service.
If the journey involves one of the TOCs then TfL would need to get approval. They could probably introduce Norwood Junction to Greenwich via Canada Water and Canary Wharf, but would anyone actually make that much of a detour?
 

FireCheetah

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I know this is a silly question, since everything I’ve read indicates otherwise — but with all the map trouble being highlighted, is it absolutely certain that Battersea / Nine Elms will not end up as boundary zone 1/2 stations too?

An additional question/thought based on the above is whether TFL would introduce an out-of-station interchange between Battersea Power Station and Battersea Park? It would only seem to be a seven minute walk between the two (according to Google Maps). However, since the underground station is set to be zone 1, and Battersea Park is zone 2, would that cause issues for an OSI implementation? I had a look at a handful of OSIs (from here) but I didn't immediately spot any which are cross-zonal...
 

Cdd89

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An additional question/thought based on the above is whether TFL would introduce an out-of-station interchange between Battersea Power Station and Battersea Park?
Yes they will (it’s been reported elsewhere). If BAK remains in Zone 2, it may create an opportunity for some Railcard travellers in that area to benefit from the afternoon peak concession by doing a same station exit at BAK before tapping in at Battersea Power Station. But since as you say there’s no precedent for cross zonal OSIs it’s hard to know for sure.

Personally I’m hoping for a Nine Elms LU and Vauxhall NR OSI, which I think has more practical journey flows associated with it.
 
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Ianno87

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Personally I’m hoping for a Nine Elms LU and Vauxhall NR OSI, which I think has more practical journey flows associated with it.

Not really - it's just the same as changing to the Northern Charing Cross branch at Waterloo.


The only minor advantage of Nine Elms is riding one stop to Kennington, then continuing (cross-platform interchange) via Bank.
 

Busaholic

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I stand corrected. Certainly a highly niche OSI (though arguably no more so than my suggestion!).
Admittedly decades before current fare structures, but used to walk between the two on a twice daily basis when I commuted contraflow, although never knew of anyone else doing it.
 
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