Keolis/Amey to take over Wales and Borders

[pemma]

Indeed, I have heard bilingual announcements made by on train crew on the Cambrian Coast line, but nowhere else. Quite a nice touch really. I’m also not bothered by ‘Transport for Wales’ being mentioned at the English stations they operate. The vast majority of services at Chester go to/from Wales some point in the journey anyway.

Incorrect.

In a normal 4 hour period at Chester:
Birmingham to Holyhead - 2
Chester to Wrexham - 4
Llandudno to Manchester - 4
Chester to Crewe - 4
Chester to Liverpool - 16
North Wales to London - 1
Chester to London - 3
Holyhead to Cardiff - 2
Chester to Manchester - 4

English only services - 27, England to Wales services - 13

Less than a third of trains serving Chester also serve Wales and the proportion will drop further when Chester to Leeds and Chester-Runcorn-Liverpool services get added to the timetable in the next year or so.

 

[PHILIPE]

Indeed, I have heard bilingual announcements made by on train crew on the Cambrian Coast line, but nowhere else. Quite a nice touch really. I’m also not bothered by ‘Transport for Wales’ being mentioned at the English stations they operate. The vast majority of services at Chester go to/from Wales some point in the journey anyway.

As for Welsh automated onboard announcements, why not? As long as everything is kept short and sweet so they aren’t really long. I think Chester/Shrewsbury/Hereford stations should just keep English only though as now.

But Chester and Shrewsbury especially are main interchange stations for areas which have a strong Welsh language speaking population

 

[krus_aragon]

I guess no one is gonna answer my question.

MTR could, if they had an account on this forum. But given there's been so little revealed about the necogiations until a deal was finalised, I doubt anyone here has the information you were asking for.

 

[uxm]

MTR could, if they had an account on this forum. But given there's been so little revealed about the necogiations until a deal was finalised, I doubt anyone here has the information you were asking for.

Keolis probably offered better rolling stock which is why they won the franchise.

 

[krus_aragon]

Keolis probably offered better rolling stock which is why they won the franchise.

Probably. Or possibly. I don't think we can give any definite answers.

 

[uxm]

Probably. Or possibly. I don't think we can give any definite answers.

Although I did hear that MTR was going to fully electrify the valley lines (no smart electrification) and use cascaded EMUs

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the branding and management of stations in England, could the stations between Shrewsbury and Hereford be traded both with the Wales & Borders and the West Midlands logos? I thought of this as the former Shrewsbury & Hereford Railway was shared between the London & North Western Railway and the Great Western Railway.

Also for the stations in Wales, most were once part of the Great Western Railway (except Chester - Holyhead/Llandudno/Blaenau Ffestiniog which were L&NWR). Could the trading of these stations outside of the Valley Lines network have some elements of GWR branding, being as I feel that the Arriva turquoise colour scheme does or did not really fit with former GWR stations.

 

[krus_aragon]

Also for the stations in Wales, most were once part of the Great Western Railway (except Chester - Holyhead/Llandudno/Blaenau Ffestiniog which were L&NWR). Could the trading of these stations outside of the Valley Lines network have some elements of GWR branding, being as I feel that the Arriva turquoise colour scheme does or did not really fit with former GWR stations.

That's a good idea in principle, but the fact that another private operator (with overlapping territory) is making heavy use of the GWR name probably makes it a non-starter.

 

[pemma]

Can I suggest that you do a little more historic research. You will find that for several long periods Chester was under Welsh control and was deemed part of Wales, especially under the Princes of Powys.

Whether Chester was ever under the control of Powys is a disputed fact. It's also believed Hywel had Welsh coins minted in Chester due to having a good relationship with the right people in England, not because Chester was part of his territory.

Anyway the fact is Chester is part of England and has been for hundreds of years so long term the Welsh lost and the English were successful.

 

[pemma]

Oh for goodness sake, come on. Nobody said that at all, that’s just rubbish! There are statistically more Welsh speakers in north Wales than there are in south Wales. It’s got nothing to do with a “few welsh speakers in Cardiff.” It’s the law, have a look at the Welsh Language Measure 2011. Any service that receives Welsh public funds must have bilingual provision. Seeing as the new franchise has been procured on a devolved basis in Wales, under agreement from the DfT it is therefore subject the to the laws set out by the introduction of the Welsh Language Measure. You can’t cherry pick, this is one franchise after all!

Have you ever been to Deeside (the area of Wales closest to Chester)? If it wasn't for bilingual signage you would think it's part of Cheshire or Merseyside as the only evidence of people being Welsh is their surnames e.g. names like Davies and Jones.

 

[CambrianCoast]

Incorrect.

In a normal 4 hour period at Chester:
Birmingham to Holyhead - 2
Chester to Wrexham - 4
Llandudno to Manchester - 4
Chester to Crewe - 4
Chester to Liverpool - 16
North Wales to London - 1
Chester to London - 3
Holyhead to Cardiff - 2
Chester to Manchester - 4

English only services - 27, England to Wales services - 13

Less than a third of trains serving Chester also serve Wales and the proportion will drop further when Chester to Leeds and Chester-Runcorn-Liverpool services get added to the timetable in the next year or so.

Have you ever been to Deeside (the area of Wales closest to Chester)? If it wasn't for bilingual signage you would think it's part of Cheshire or Merseyside as the only evidence of people being Welsh is their surnames e.g. names like Davies and Jones.

Yes I have, I’m there daily. I work on Deeside, have you been? Now it looks like you’re saying, because it’s near Chester it should be considered a part of Cheshire or Merseyside because people don’t speak Welsh as a first language there? Isn’t that what you claimed to be wrong with regards to Transport for Wales branding on English border stations, that they’re being considered Welsh stations against their will when the stations are in England? Now it seems like a bit of a contradictatory, hypocritical argument.

 

[pemma]

Yes I have, I’m there daily. I work on Deeside, have you been? Now it looks like you’re saying, because it’s near Chester it should be considered a part of Cheshire or Merseyside because people don’t speak Welsh as a first language there? Isn’t that what you claimed to be wrong with regards to Transport for Wales branding on English border stations, that they’re being considered Welsh stations against their will when the stations are in England? Now it seems like a bit of a contradictatory, hypocritical argument.

Iceland Foods and Money Supermarket were clients of a business I used to work with, so I was regularly in connect with people from two different businesses based on Deeside. I never spoke to one person who had an accent which wouldn't sound out of place on The Wirral or heard one word of Welsh being spoken at client's offices. The Indian workers at Barclays talk to each other in their native non-English language but the Welsh workers at Deeside all seem to talk to one another in English.

I'm actually saying what's the point of Welsh signage in an area where Welsh isn't spoken? If they are catering for outsiders then there's plenty of different languages which people passing through speak, not just Welsh and English.

 

[driver_m]

I think if some of the things said on here about the Welsh language use, were repeated in Bangor or inland parts of North Wales such as Denbigh or Ruthin, you'd very quickly be looking for a sharp exit back to England. All the old Northern counties of Wales have significant populations of Welsh speakers, so just because of the cliche about Rhyl being full of Scousers doesnt mean Welsh signs should not be used for that reason. I would suggest that this thread gets back to the bread and butter of trains, track and such in Wales, end of the day it's a bilingual country, and if there's some Welsh language written on a Chester station and other English stations then so be it. If my fellow English get upset over it then they need to assess their lives .

 

[JetStream]

I was simply making the point ANY child can pass through Chester station as you seemed to imply that those who had been given a Roman Solider tour of Chester wouldn't see the Welsh government branding inside Chester station.

The franchise has been known as the Wales & Borders franchise since 2001. Arriva Trains Wales are the current franchise holder of the Wales & Borders franchise.

Seriously, have a Snickers.

 

[Parallel]

But Chester and Shrewsbury especially are main interchange stations for areas which have a strong Welsh language speaking population

Operationally, it wouldn’t really work at Shrewsbury - There is a constant barrage of announcements anyway in English (announcements are global) so adding Welsh to the mix too would make it twice as bad. As for Chester, maybe but wouldn’t really say it was essential.

 

[317 forever]

Aberystwyth station has now had the "sticker treatment":

Underneath the new signage we can still see traces of Arriva Trains Wales.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

It can be a shame seeing some anti-English or anti-Welsh sentiment, we Brits are mostly a "mongrel" lot aren't we therefore we should be exhibiting less prejudice? My parents and I are English born & bred but my grandparents on one side are from Scotland & Wales and the other are from Cornwall & Jersey.

Maybe maybe if we learnt some bits of Welsh, Cornish & the Scots languages in school as children for cultural knowledge - those languages are British & belong to our country as much as English - then we would become familiar with these from earlier exposure, despite many us English not using these ourselves, then some of us wouldn't feel the need to "look down" on others and reduce any aminosity brewing up in those perceiving as "English superiority".

I know this is political and for another thread, the point is we really shouldn't be complaining about Welsh in England as it is NOT foreign in our country.

 

[sw1ller]

I live in deeside, as do my nephews. They speak welsh as their first language. Sounds like you’re arguing over a pointless thing. Shall we bring the fact Chester stations announcments are largely done by a bloke with a very thick Scottish accent?? No?? That would be daft wouldn’t it!!

 

[pemma]

It can be a shame seeing some anti-English or anti-Welsh sentiment, we Brits are mostly a "mongrel" lot aren't we therefore we should be exhibiting less prejudice? My parents and I are English born & bred but my grandparents on one side are from Scotland & Wales and the other are from Cornwall & Jersey.

Maybe maybe if we learnt some bits of Welsh, Cornish & the Scots languages in school as children for cultural knowledge - those languages are British & belong to our country as much as English - then we would become familiar with these from earlier exposure, despite many us English not using these ourselves, then some of us wouldn't feel the need to "look down" on others and reduce any aminosity brewing up in those perceiving as "English superiority".

I know this is political and for another thread, the point is we really shouldn't be complaining about Welsh in England as it is NOT foreign in our country.

Actually in Wales, the Welsh Language Act applies. In the United Kingdom as a whole Welsh shares the same status as Gaelic and Cornish being classed as a 'regional minority language.'

 

[pemma]

I live in deeside, as do my nephews. They speak welsh as their first language. Sounds like you’re arguing over a pointless thing. Shall we bring the fact Chester stations announcments are largely done by a bloke with a very thick Scottish accent?? No?? That would be daft wouldn’t it!!

And? If someone has the right to work in the UK and can do a good job at station announcements in English it doesn't matter what accent they have, in fact discriminating against someone because of their accent may be illegal. The important thing is English language signage and announcements are required by various laws, Welsh language signage and announcements are only covered by the Welsh Language Act which isn't recognised in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

 

[uxm]

Okay everyone can we end this stupid argument? all that matters is if we can understand what they are saying it really doesn't matter, it's just an announcement to let us know where the train is going.

 

[Dai Corner]

Job Vacancy.

https://cymru-wales.tal.net/vx/mobi...Non-Executive-Chair-Transport-for-Wales/en-GB

Vacancy -- Appointment of Non-Executive Chair - Transport for Wales
Vacancy details

Name of body
Transport for Wales
Location
Pan-Wales
Remuneration
£425.00 per day, 5 days per month, decreasing after 6 months to 3 days per month (48 days for year 1, decreasing to 36 days per year hereafter)
Minimum days required
48
Minimum days per
year
English job description File upload field, to activate press space bar
TfW - NED Chair - Information for Candidates (E).pdf

 

[sw1ller]

Oooo, tom will be all over that!

 

[Gareth Marston]

"Managing expectation" not the most inspiring comment for the start of KeolisAmey?

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...est-challenge-of-wales-and-borders-franchise/

The chief executive of Keolis’ international business believes managing passenger expectations will be the greatest challenge facing KeolisAmey when it takes over the new Wales and Borders franchise on October 14.

 

[krus_aragon]

"Managing expectation" not the most inspiring comment for the start of KeolisAmey?

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...est-challenge-of-wales-and-borders-franchise/

It may not be inspiring, but when you boil it down a bit...

Keolis ... believes managing passenger expectations will be the greatest challenge ... on October 14.

It's probably a rather accurate comment.

 

[Cardiff123]

Of course managing expectations is the biggest challenge up until January 2020 at least. All you need to do is look at the tweets ATW are currently getting and elsewhere on social media to see that passengers think something magical is going to happen by Christmas (some even think something magical will happen on October 15th), when in fact due to the PRM program things will get worse.
Passengers expecting 6 car trains for their morning commute from October 15th will be very disappointed when the ATW coloured 2 car 142 turns up.

More from the article:

Speaking during a press event at InnoTrans, Bernard Tabary said there was a feeling that passengers had been let down for decades but was keen to stress that change won’t happen overnight.

He added: “We are taking over the network on 14th of October and we are in a transition that is going smoothly with the current operator. The biggest challenge is the very, very high expectation of passengers who want to see change right away and the manufacturing of new trains. The delivery of big changes will only come over time.”

 

[Kyle1]

Given the news in the Class 769 thread that TFW won't be getting any until next December, is there a contingency plan to cover for a shortage of trains while some 150s are away (and before the 170's arrive), or are passengers going to have to relearn the art of human origami?

 

[185]

Can I suggest that you do a little more historic research. You will find that for several long periods Chester was under Welsh control and was deemed part of Wales, especially under the Princes of Powys.

Come visit us i) within the city walls and ii) after midnight, and we'll discuss this issue further
>> http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question37272.html

 

[Parallel]

I wonder if there’s something between the lines of that ‘managing expectations’ comment by KeolisAmey. Maybe it’s not just the passengers that applies to...

 

[PaulHarding150]

Given the news in the Class 769 thread that TFW won't be getting any until next December, is there a contingency plan to cover for a shortage of trains while some 150s are away (and before the 170's arrive), or are passengers going to have to relearn the art of human origami?

It’s been mentioned elsewhere on this forum about class 144s coming down to help during PRM Mods. Not heard it officially from TfW though.