Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by AventraFlex, 26 May 2018.

  1. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    Well what classes are they and where are they coming from? And where's your source? Civil servants look into lots of things many in fact most don't happen. just because there's been a hint that something maybe happening doesn't mean it will.
     
  2. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    I don't know for definite and I don't have one, sorry. Still not clear on why a 6 month old presentation document was linked, surely by now neither you nor PHILIPE thinks that it's new...?
     
  3. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

    Messages:
    1,907
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2013
    Perhaps we can all just wait until something is actually announced rather than endless speculation?

    None of us actually know anything at this stage.

    We can just hope that TfW are trying to source additional short term stock over and above that outlined in the franchise document.
     
  4. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    4,502
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    No, neither of them will think that it's new (I'm certain that Gareth won't). It is useful in making clear what rolling stock was already expected, and therefore nothing in that document can be the possible "quite old, extra" rolling stock being sought.

    With regards to the extra 769s tagged on since, my understanding is that those have been definitively ordered. So they wouldn't fit the bill of the tentative availability described to the committee.

    So there's something (or things) else under consideration. There are rumours of Northern Pacers on this forum, and now suggestions of 156s.

    I think (hope) we're all on the same hymn sheet in that TfW are looking for extra unknown rolling stock just for next year, and that no official description of this stock has been made. (Further speculation continues, of course.)
     
  5. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

    Messages:
    5,411
    Joined:
    1 May 2012
    In my experience things can always get worse.
     
  6. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    It's not new but it is the plan for the franchise ( we know the 769 introduction has slipped and another 4 units have been added). It's also all been budgeted for, whereas anything extra "looked at" will come with a price tag even a Pacer. What gets deleted to pay for it or where does the extra £ come from?
     
  7. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    Thank you!!! (Not necessarily siding, pardon the pun)
     
  8. Bikeman78

    Bikeman78 Member

    Messages:
    625
    Joined:
    26 Apr 2018
    Deleted
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2018
  9. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    10 Mar 2013
    And when are GA likely to be finished with these 156s? TfW are looking at 'short term old trains' that will be available from early next year, not from May/June or later.
     
  10. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    Fair point
     
  11. CapitalStar378

    CapitalStar378 Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    22 Jun 2013
    Do we know if orders have been placed for the new rolling stock yet? Some news on TOPS numbers would be encouraging.
     
  12. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    4,502
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    There were plenty of reports of the "preferred bidder" announcements back in June, but the only actual contract/order announcement I've found is in the International Railway Journal:
     
  13. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    Just came across my National Express leaflet from back in 2001. £375 million was promised on new rolling stock for the Wales and Borders franchise. No detail of what classes etc.

    A reminder of what should have happened.
     
  14. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    10 Mar 2013
    Oh well judging by the stories in the Northern Pacer withdrawals thread I think TfW can forget about getting their hands on the 'quite old trains' that they're looking for from next February.
    I'd say derogations are now inevitable. There's no way the rest of the 158s and all of the 150s can be modified in 2019 without the 769s arriving until May, and even then it'll only be 5 until the 4 extra they've ordered arrive.
     
  15. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    Speaking in March 2019, if no "quite old extra trains" have entered temporary service with TfW Rail, either they couldn't get any or they're delayed until later this year...

    Speaking in December 2018, December 2021 / January 2022 should be the realistic absolute deadline for the PRM mods. Will TfW Rail / KeolisAmey have to pay a "PRM fine" starting from the 1st of January 2020 to allow unmodified units to continue in service before they're modified...? In the TfW Rail disabled and older peoples' travel guide or whatever it's called, there is a statement of "all our trains will be PRM-TSI compliant by 2020". Surely this is a lie, because realistically that's not going to be the case...? :-/
     
  16. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    10 Mar 2013
    It can still be the case, if passengers are prepared to accept widespread bustitution next year, which this autumn has shown they are not.
     
  17. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    If it is going to be the case, then where are all the extra PRM modification workshops that have(n't) been built to speed up the process by 1.5 to 2 years...?
     
  18. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    Finance still not fully in place for CAF order yet- apparently over 20 different finance houses involved!
     
  19. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    Oh god. At least 20 have agreed to be involved :o
     
  20. Parallel

    Parallel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,496
    Joined:
    9 Dec 2013
    They’re probably going to have to really reduce down capacity everywhere next year to get as many units as possible done.

    I wonder how many of the below we will see:

    1tp2h Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth 2 car (158)
    1tp2h Machynlleth to Pwllheli 2 car (158)
    1tph Birmingham - Shrewsbury 4 car (158/150)(detaching 2 to work to join another train back)
    1tp2h Shrewsbury to Holyhead 2 car (158)
    1tph Manchester to Llandudno 2/3 car (150/158/175)
    BUS Llandudno to Blaenau
    BUS Chester to Crewe
    BUS Shrewsbury to Crewe local
    1tph West Wales to Manchester 3 coaches (175)
    1tph Maesteg to Cheltenham 2 car (175/Pacer?)
    1tp4h HOWL 1/2 car (150/153/175?)
    1tph City Line (14x/153) - Ticket acceptance on buses?
    BUS - Cardiff Bay (not going to happen but probably should to free up a unit)
    Valley lines - Mainly pacers and some 150s. Maybe some trains turning around at Pontypridd and Caerphilly/Ystrad Mynach instead. Buses to supplement.
    BUS - Fishguard route
    1tp2h Carmarthen to Pembroke 2 cars (150/14x/153)

    Buses to supplement reduced frequency/capacity.

    Please note that I’m not saying any above is a good idea, just predictions for what might happen!
     
  21. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

    Messages:
    10,283
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2011
    Location:
    Caerphilly
    Would the Works/Depot capacity be available to do a large number at one time ?
     
  22. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

    Messages:
    1,724
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2018
    That's what I want to know as well. Surely there must be some fine that will have to be paid if units continue to operate without modifications in 2020 and 2021 until they're modified...?
     
  23. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    Good news for public transport per se in Wales in the near future?

    Lee Waters AM for Llanelli and most high profile M4 Relief Road opponent appointed as Junior Transport Minister in Mark Drakefords first cabinet.
     
  24. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    10 Mar 2013
    It's certainly a very interesting appointment and I don't think Lee Waters would have accepted the job if he knew he'd have to resign within a few weeks against the relief road 'black route'.
    Let's hope this does signal a real shift in direction for public and sustainable transport and rail spending in Wales. It's desperately needed after 10 years of stagnation under Carwyn Jones.
     
  25. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

    Messages:
    823
    Joined:
    14 Jul 2018
    However nice it would be to take the strain with trains it just isn’t possible and IMO the M4 Newport Bypass should have been built years ago. Just get on with it!
     
  26. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    10 Mar 2013
    Deleted
     
  27. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    Deleted -the M4 Relief Road Black Route?:p

    The signs are there-

    • Carwyn Jones was bullish in public about "approving" the Black Route before he stepped down and then went very quite in the last couple of weeks and didn't happen.
    • The Inspectors Report hasn't been published despite being completed months ago- the noise from Welsh Government is "its taking time to analysis and is very complex" - this is is civil service speak for "there's a problem" and given it was commissioned to give the green light to the Black Route the problem can only be it hasn't.
    • The promised vote for AM's hasn't happened.
    • Its most outspoken critic in the Assembly has been made a Junior Transport Minister.
    • The new First Minister refused to given any commitment to it in his campaign to become Welsh Labour Leader.
     
  28. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    4,502
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Whatever option is selected for the M4 bypass, I think we can be certain that none of Keolis-Amey's new rolling stock will operate on it (see thread title).
     
  29. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

    Messages:
    6,231
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Newtown Montgomeryshire
    No - but if the black route is rejected the focus of Welsh Governments Transport policy and implementation moves away from "big road schemes" to other things which is maybe good news for future South Wales Metro extensions, electrification, Swansea Bay Metro, North Wales Metro etc and therefore railway rolling stock.
     
  30. Broseley man

    Broseley man Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2015
    The tolls on the bridges are about to be removed, signage is being put in place. The prediction is six million extra trips.

    The electrification out of Wales is unfinished and doesn't anyway improve Cardiff to Bristol.

    There is no stock yet to improve Cardiff to Bristol.

    A decision needs to be made on the Newport Southern bypass which alleviates the two lane section bottleneck at Brynglas tunnels on the M4 north of Newport. We know this well!!

    Mark Drakeford takes over as new First Minister from Carwyn Jones. Mark studiously DID NOT commit to supporting the new bypass. He has appointed Lee Waters as Junior Transport Minister, an adamant opponent of the new bypass, and that suggests that the new bypass will be abandoned otherwise Lee would be resigning straightaway.

    So. Who knows where the joined up thinking is?

    Imagine if new capacity electric trains were introduced on the Cardiff/Bristol axis before the tolls were lifted.

    The effect of all the new traffic at Brynglas and where the M48 and M4 converge on both sides of the Severn will be interesting. The bit from Almondsbury round Bristol to Bath is already hard to drive. I hate it.

    Nevertheless Michael Gove is just the best Environment Secretary and wouldn't be letting this happen if it weren't to be improving air quality around Cardiff and Bristol and Bath. Oh! Bath has just discovered its air quality is a problem and has a complex scheme to keep traffic away from the centre. This will help! NOT.

    I suppose the four tracking on Filton Bank does give some hope for better rail services. To me there should be a high speed, frequent link Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath.

    Port Talbot also has MAJOR air quality problems. Encouraging more M4 traffic along the M4 which goes almost through the centre won't help.


    RANT OVER.

    Urgh.
     

Share This Page