Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

[PHILIPE]

It's doing the same tomorrow too. Just watched out for it by Flint.

When they last ran on the Conwy Valley line, did they have bus style seats on them? I recall the 153 having a similar seat layout as a pacer. This was around 2005, on a trip down to Blaenau.

I believe the line may have been worked by 142s with their bus type seats in FNW (paqrdon me if I've got the TOC wrong) days but when it was transferred to Wales and Borders round about 2001 it was worked by 153s.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

I don't recall 142's ever being used on that line. Used to use a 101 which had bus seats (some of which are in Blaenau mess room) I think once the 101 was moved on, a single 153 was used. Then once the concessionary travel scheme started, it was upgraded to a 150.

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't recall 142's ever being used on that line. Used to use a 101 which had bus seats (some of which are in Blaenau mess room) I think once the 101 was moved on, a single 153 was used. Then once the concessionary travel scheme started, it was upgraded to a 150.

It used to be a 153 in the Winter and then swapped with the 150 on the Shrewsbury to Crewe local in the Summer

 

[Rhydgaled]

153369 is currently sitting at Chester ready to go ECS to Llandudno Jcn and back for the purpose of Llandudno Jn and Holyhead crews converting to the class in preparation for their re-introduction on the Conwy Valley Route. They are not strangers on the route having worked it previously.

Isn't 369 one of the five transfered from GWR? If so, has it been refurbished and repainted now because when they arrived it was reported on here that the GWR examples needed to stay near Cardiff until mods were done.

When they last ran on the Conwy Valley line, did they have bus style seats on them? I recall the 153 having a similar seat layout as a pacer.

Not bus seats, but aren't the interiors of the ex-ATW Pacers, 150s and 153s much the same? Same seats and same (lack of) legroom.

 

[PHILIPE]

Isn't 369 one of the five transfered from GWR? If so, has it been refurbished and repainted now because when they arrived it was reported on here that the GWR examples needed to stay near Cardiff until mods were done.

Not bus seats, but aren't the interiors of the ex-ATW Pacers, 150s and 153s much the same? Same seats and same (lack of) legroom.

Ex GWR. The mods were expected to have been completed by end of June. It has been refurbished

 

[sd0733]

Not bus seats, but aren't the interiors of the ex-ATW Pacers, 150s and 153s much the same? Same seats and same (lack of) legroom.

Round 2005 hadnt all the ex Wales and West 153s got that awful interior with the low down seats removed from the 158s where you couldnt see out.

 

[anamyd]

Not bus seats, but aren't the interiors of the ex-ATW Pacers, 150s and 153s much the same? Same seats and same (lack of) legroom.

yes, left over from Wales & West. GWR 150/2s and 143s and the ex-GWR 153s also have the W&W interior layout with the Chapman seats for people without legs.

Amazingly 158815/816/817 are still going around with Northern with W&W Chapman seated interiors, unlike the many more higher numbered ex-ATW 158s that went to East Midlands Trains and lost them

 

[Cardiff123]

https://tfw.gov.wales/metrobegins

Notice how this page on the TfW (Welsh Government) website mentions the 170s and the 230s, but no mention at all of the 769s.
Whilst the 170s have a firm date for driver training to start, we haven't had a firm date for the 769s have we? We're already 2 weeks into the month driver training on the 769s (when they are actually moving on diesel power) is due to start.

 

[PHILIPE]

https://tfw.gov.wales/metrobegins

Notice how this page on the TfW (Welsh Government) website mentions the 170s and the 230s, but no mention at all of the 769s.
Whilst the 170s have a firm date for driver training to start, we haven't had a firm date for the 769s have we? We're already 2 weeks into the month driver training on the 769s (when they are actually moving on diesel power) is due to start.

I wonder if they will give up on the 769s in the end.

 

[Rhydgaled]

https://tfw.gov.wales/metrobegins

Notice how this page on the TfW (Welsh Government) website mentions the 170s and the 230s, but no mention at all of the 769s.
Whilst the 170s have a firm date for driver training to start, we haven't had a firm date for the 769s have we? We're already 2 weeks into the month driver training on the 769s (when they are actually moving on diesel power) is due to start.

I heard yesterday that the two 769s currently in Pullman Rail, Canton might not be let out onto the network until after the third 769 has arrived in Cardiff. I think an ETA for the 3rd unit may have been given but I didn't catch that, anyone here know when the 3rd one is due? I also heard that service entry is now Feb 2020 at the earliest (not sure if that was for the first 769 or all 9 in service, either way it knocks Pacer replacement on the head). It might be worth treating both of these comments as 'staff rumour' (I'm not railway staff, but I heard it from railway staff).

 

[anthony263]

Think 769450 is the first 769 out onto the mainline on electric and diesel power so that's probably another reason why 769002 and 008 haven't been approved for driver training yet

 

[Dai Corner]

Richard Clinnick of Rail magazine has tweeted the class numbers of the new stock

https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1201471068822757376?s=21

So, @tfwrail has confirmed that its @CAFRail_UK DMUs will be Cl.197s, while its Stadler bi-modes will be Cl.231s. Its tram-train fleet, also from Stadler, will be Cl.398s, while its tri-mode Stadler fleet will be Cl.756s.

 

[anamyd]

Richard Clinnick of Rail magazine has tweeted the class numbers of the new stock

https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1201471068822757376?s=21

Wow, progress!!! Thanks for sharing

 

[JamesT]

Class 231 for Stadler bi-modes seems a little odd. I would have thought they'd want to leave some space for Vivarail to produce variants, or will those all end up as subclasses of 230?

 

[samuelmorris]

Class 231 for Stadler bi-modes seems a little odd. I would have thought they'd want to leave some space for Vivarail to produce variants, or will those all end up as subclasses of 230?

197 and 756 exactly as expected, but 231 is just bizarre.

 

[krus_aragon]

That's exactly how they tweeted it:

We have some exciting news for rail enthusiasts today - we're about to announce the confirmed class numbers for our brand new rolling stock, which will begin to enter service from 2022!
...
First up, our new Wales and Borders diesel trains, which are being assembled here in Wales, will be Class 197. These will enter service throughout the TfW network from 2022
...
The diesel-electric Metro trains that will run on the Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cardiff-Cheltenham lines from 2022 will be Class 231
...
Our Metro tram-trains, which will run on the Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr lines from 2022, will be Class 398
...
Lastly,our innovative tri-mode Metro trains, which will enter service on the Rhymney, Coryton&Vale of Glamorgan lines in 2023,will be Class 756

 

[anamyd]

Class 231 for Stadler bi-modes seems a little odd. I would have thought they'd want to leave some space for Vivarail to produce variants, or will those all end up as subclasses of 230?

The 231s are the diesel-electric (non-pantograph, not bi-mode) FLIRTs and the 756s are the tri-mode FLIRTs.

The D-Trains are classified in different ranges depending on their traction type, so the battery-electric, Diesel-electric and Diesel-battery-electric units are Class 230 (numbered sequentially so far but as you say subclasses could come into play) and the DC electric units are Class 484.

 

[krus_aragon]

Class 231 for Stadler bi-modes seems a little odd. I would have thought they'd want to leave some space for Vivarail to produce variants, or will those all end up as subclasses of 230?

Based on current progress and announced order lists, they will probably be able to fit them all in subclasses.

 

[anamyd]

@samuelmorris and @krus_aragon see the first paragraph of the 1337 post - the 11 DEMUs for Maesteg and Ebbw Vale are the 231s; the 756s are the tri-mode units

 

[anamyd]

That's exactly how they tweeted it:

thanks for sharing

 

[samuelmorris]

@samuelmorris and @krus_aragon see the first paragraph of the 1337 post - the 11 DEMUs for Maesteg and Ebbw Vale are the 231s; the 756s are the tri-mode units

Indeed, and I still think it's bizarre. A number beginning with 2 I understand, but shoving it right up against another entirely different unit is, well standard TOPS behaviour I guess.

 

[anamyd]

Indeed, and I still think it's bizarre. A number beginning with 2 I understand, but shoving it right up against another entirely different unit is, well standard TOPS behaviour I guess.

I will admit I was actually a little surprised myself - unfortunately I doubt they'll ever get changed to say 240

 

[ivzem]

I will admit I was actually a little surprised myself - unfortunately I doubt they'll ever get changed to say 240

Or even 256, which should still be available unless Wikipedia is wrong.

 

[Cambrian359]

That's exactly how they tweeted it:

I’m sure they new diesel fleet was given an original start of introduction date of mid 2021........new quoted date above is 2022..... I’ll see If can find the original documents that were released ,or perhaps someone might have them saved somewhere?

 

[krus_aragon]

I’m sure they new diesel fleet was given an original start of introduction date of mid 2021........new quoted date above is 2022..... I’ll see If can find the original documents that were released ,or perhaps someone might have them saved somewhere?

It matches the details listed here, but there's no telling whether the contents of that page have changed since last year. It's definitely been updated at least once (with the changed plans for the Wrexham-Liverpool service).

The rolling stock graph published at the franchise announcement indicated that the 175s would be withdrawn between Q4 2021 and Q2 2022, whereas the bulk of the new "Long distance and Rural DMU" would be introduced between Q3 2021 and Q3 2022. The timetable change is due for December 2022.

I think one could make both arguments: that the timing has slipped form 2021 to 2022, or that you wouldn't have seen more than a few units in public use before 2022 anyway.

 

[Mikey C]

398 for the tram trains seems odd as well, when the rest of the 39* range has been used for high speed (over 125 mph) EMUs!

398 would make more sense for a derivative of the TPE Class 397...

 

[Cambrian359]

It matches the details listed here, but there's no telling whether the contents of that page have changed since last year. It's definitely been updated at least once (with the changed plans for the Wrexham-Liverpool service).

The rolling stock graph published at the franchise announcement indicated that the 175s would be withdrawn between Q4 2021 and Q2 2022, whereas the bulk of the new "Long distance and Rural DMU" would be introduced between Q3 2021 and Q3 2022. The timetable change is due for December 2022.

I think one could make both arguments: that the timing has slipped form 2021 to 2022, or that you wouldn't have seen more than a few units in public use before 2022 anyway.

Thank you,knew I’d seen it somewhere.dates slipping is fine as long as the existing stock isn’t promised off to early! don’t think we would want to be in GA position in 2 years time!

 

[samuelmorris]

398 for the tram trains seems odd as well, when the rest of the 39* range has been used for high speed (over 125 mph) EMUs!

398 would make more sense for a derivative of the TPE Class 397...

It's because the other tram train class recently procured was (also daft) 399.

 

[anamyd]

It's because the other tram train class recently procured was (also daft) 399.

and of course they couldn't be 400 because that would be very dangerous and illegal

 

[Dai Corner]

and of course they couldn't be 400 because that would be very dangerous and illegal

4xx are 3rd Rail DC EMUs so if they used that somebody would start a rumour that they were going to electrify the Valleys using that system to avoid problems with low bridges and Caerphilly Tunnel