Khan 'fares freeze' not quite true

[ag51ruk]

When London Regional Transport ran public transport in London there used to be an 'LT Card' which was basically valid on the tube and bus services. However I seem to remember that it wasn't valid north of Queens Park on the Bakerloo Line because National Rail fares applied between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone.

Just to confuse things further we also had Travelcards which were valid, as now, on trains, tubes and buses in the relevant zones.

The original Travelcard was a London Transport only product - when a version was introduced that covered British Rail services, it was called Capitalcard and was more expensive. The two products were combined around 1990, with the LT Card appearing a few years later that was the same as the original Travelcard product.

I can't see a TfL only product being reintroduced now the ticketing systems throughout Greater London are so integrated, and with the large number of LO routes that share stations with other franchises operators

 

[Hadders]

Ah yes, the Capitalcard! In many respects I thought this was a better name than Travelcard but in the end it was the Travelcard name that was kept.

I seem to remember a large amount of advertising when Capitalcard was launched.

 

[jon0844]

Once in a while I'll walk by a ticket office and hear someone ask for a Capitalcard!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see a TfL only product being reintroduced now the ticketing systems throughout Greater London are so integrated, and with the large number of LO routes that share stations with other franchises operators

In any case TfL is progressing towards being in control of all transport in the Zones; once it is, that difference becomes irrelevant anyway.


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[Deerfold]

In any case TfL is progressing towards being in control of all transport in the Zones; once it is, that difference becomes irrelevant anyway.


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With the zones also expanding, I can't see that happening.

TfL aren't likely to take over LM services to Watford and beyond or services to Gatwick that continue to Brighton or all services that pass through Dartford.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TfL aren't likely to take over LM services to Watford and beyond or services to Gatwick that continue to Brighton or all services that pass through Dartford.

No, but it's quite probable that they will become a fare-setting authority for at least some of them, and as such that the money paid to those operators for those journeys will be separated from the precise fares revenue received.

That's more the Verbund model - DB and other private operators operate a great many Verkehrsverbund services in Germany, but the Verbund is the fare-setting authority, with payments to operators for operating the service/accepting the passengers separated from the fare income itself.

 

[HSTEd]

Does anyone know how much a magstripe ticket actually costs at this point?
I think it is getting towards the point where it might be cheaper overall to simply issue 'MIFARE Ultralight' type tickets in lieu of them.
Then you could eliminate all the card reader equipment.

 

[rebmcr]

Does anyone know how much a magstripe ticket actually costs at this point?
I think it is getting towards the point where it might be cheaper overall to simply issue 'MIFARE Ultralight' type tickets in lieu of them.
Then you could eliminate all the card reader equipment.

You'd have to retrofit all of the ticket issuing equipment on the national rail network to include MIFARE writing capability...

 

[Clip]

Maybe Sadiq Khan could launch a TfL services only travelcard, that would really put the goose up the TOC's as TfL dominate rail services in the London area, People would probably rather take a slight detour if it saved them a few quid.

And how would that work for the vast swathes of London south of the river which is not dominated by TfL by a long shot? South london loses out again!

 

[Clip]

He was also on LBC today around the 20 min mark on here http://www.lbc.co.uk/speak-to-sadiq-watch-live-from-1pm-132195 sayign he could freeze all fares including rail if he was given all rail services in London.

 

[philthetube]

He was also on LBC today around the 20 min mark on here http://www.lbc.co.uk/speak-to-sadiq-watch-live-from-1pm-132195 sayign he could freeze all fares including rail if he was given all rail services in London.

Could, not Would.

 

[duncanp]

I think the government wouldn't necessarily object to giving the mayor the power to set National Rail fares in Zones 1 - 6, but I can't see them giving him any extra money.

For one thing, people outside London would object to the London Mayor being given money to freeze fares whilst their fares go up.

 

[PeterC]

One trouble with freezing TfL fares is that it encourages more people to drive into Greater London rather than use their local rail service.

 

[bb21]

I think the government wouldn't necessarily object to giving the mayor the power to set National Rail fares in Zones 1 - 6, but I can't see them giving him any extra money.

For one thing, people outside London would object to the London Mayor being given money to freeze fares whilst their fares go up.

Changes will in all likelihood have to be revenue neutral if National Rail fares are involved.

Last time that happened (making fares zonal), we lost inboundary Off-Peak Day Returns to compensate.

 

[MikeWh]

Last time that happened (making fares zonal), we lost inboundary Off-Peak Day Returns to compensate.

Oh no we didn't!

Fares became zonal around 2 years before Oyster was rolled out. I remember using terrific value Crayford to Hampton Court off-peak day returns during that period. Those fares were abolished when Oyster started purely to encourage as many people as possible to switch to Oyster.

 

[bb21]

Oh no we didn't!

Fares became zonal around 2 years before Oyster was rolled out. I remember using terrific value Crayford to Hampton Court off-peak day returns during that period. Those fares were abolished when Oyster started purely to encourage as many people as possible to switch to Oyster.

My memory seems to be a blur then in that case.

... unless they were part of the same grand plan.