Landslip At Corby (13/06)

[Roast Veg]

One aspect not covered here is that the nearest NR access point to the line in the area was also flooded, hampering police/ambulance/fire when they reached the scene.

Many passengers starting from Leicester elected to return to their points of origin, perhaps unsurprisingly.

Thankfully the locks remained engaged on 1C52, meaning that without climbing out of a window or breaking emergency glass there was little opportunity to detrain without the assistance of staff.

From videos of the event that I received of the track flooding, you wouldn't have wanted to anyway!

 

[MadCommuter]

dear me. A mature and helpful response that i am sure would have in no way made helping everyone else harder . Perhaps your nom de plume is quite accurate.

Yes, but I wouldn't have done so without giving notice of my intentions. Which perhaps would have changed my actions.

Given this new info of a flooded access point, that changes things too.

Without being in the situation, it's hard to say what anyone would do. But the photos on twitter showed cramped carriages, no water or food for a significant period and I should imagine the toilets weren't in a good condition.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, but I wouldn't have done so without giving notice of my intentions. Which perhaps would have changed my actions.

Given this new info of a flooded access point, that changes things too.

Without being in the situation, it's hard to say what anyone would do. But the photos on twitter showed cramped carriages, no water or food for a significant period and I should imagine the toilets weren't in a good condition.

with respect it is easy to say what I would have done: stayed on the train where it is dry and safe and waited for professionals to sort out a safe way of getting me off the train. Acting like John McClane helps no one, you included.

How well do you think scrambling up the side of a waterlogged cutting, in your street clothes and shoes, would have gone?

 

[MadCommuter]

with respect it is easy to say what I would have done: stayed on the train where it is dry and safe and waited for professionals to sort out a safe way of getting me off the train. Acting like John McClane helps no one, you included.

How well do you think scrambling up the side of a waterlogged cutting, in your street clothes and shoes, would have gone?

Isn't that what happened anyway? Nonetheless, with the flooded track and access road, I dare say I'd have stayed put anyway.

 

[mpthomson]

Isn't that what happened anyway? Nonetheless, with the flooded track and access road, I dare say I'd have stayed put anyway.

Yes, but in a controlled and organised manner and with professional assistance at hand if anyone had struggled rather than just people randomly wandering around with no real idea of where they're going....

 

[whhistle]

 

[DarloRich]

re above picture:

Right apprentice Dave, take this small shovel, dig out that Locomotive. Chop chop.

(OBVIOUSLY that is a joke. The guy doing this work have done really well in sorting this out in fairly awful conditions.)

 

[Llanigraham]

Against all advice, given the location and appalling conditions described, I would have detrained myself and family. I'm amazed people didn't, armed with GPS and maps on phones.

Thankfully the passenger were a lot more sensible, followed the advice given and stayed put, thereby assisting the situation and not making it worse, as your selfish actions would have done.

 

[ainsworth74]

Right apprentice Dave, take this small shovel, dig out that Locomotive. Chop chop.

There's no way the guy with the shovel wasn't quietly, in their head, abusing their supervisors very existence after being given that task

 

[DanDaDriver]

Against all advice, given the location and appalling conditions described, I would have detrained myself and family. I'm amazed people didn't, armed with GPS and maps on phones.

Jump down from an HST into a flooded, unstable cutting with god knows what under the water, in the middle of nowhere.

Excellent idea Professor.

 

[Howardh]

I shudder at the thought of a HST charging towards a landslip that no-one knows is there; under current weather conditions are HST's told to reduce speed in certain areas where landslips are possible even though they've never slid before?

 

[DanDaDriver]

I shudder at the thought of a HST charging towards a landslip that no-one knows is there; under current weather conditions are HST's told to reduce speed in certain areas where landslips are possible even though they've never slid before?

Basically, no.

 

[westinghouseB]

Well my better half, who was a CH on the affected train has just arrived home after a 19hr shift.

Ive heard they all did a brilliant job and were all in good spirits on returning, if not a little moist from all the rain! Well done to all involved

 

[edwin_m]

I should imagine the toilets weren't in a good condition.

EMT HSTs still have dump-on-track toilets, which sounds to me like another reason to stay on the train. Unlike say the Lewisham situation they would have had light and heat and probably seats too.

 

[yorksrob]

I shudder at the thought of a HST charging towards a landslip that no-one knows is there; under current weather conditions are HST's told to reduce speed in certain areas where landslips are possible even though they've never slid before?

Why a HST in particular ? Aren't landslips a potential issue for all fast trains ?

 

[Roast Veg]

I don't know how good the Wheel Slide Protection is on HSTs in comparison to, say, a Meridian with computer controlled rheostatic brakes.

 

[DanDaDriver]

I don't know how good the Wheel Slide Protection is on HSTs in comparison to, say, a Meridian with computer controlled rheostatic brakes.

How is WSP going to help you crashing into a landslide?

 

[Dieseldriver]

How is WSP going to help you crashing into a landslide?

Simple, the Driver will spot the landslide at a range of 150 yards travelling at 125mph, put their foot on the brake, WSP will kick in and bingo, disaster averted.

 

[DanDaDriver]

Simple, the Driver will spot the landslide at a range of 150 yards travelling at 125mph, put their foot on the brake, WSP will kick in and bingo, disaster averted.

A good driver would swerve out the way.

 

[tsr]

Given this new info of a flooded access point, that changes things too.

And not something you would have known if you’d chosen to detrain yourself.

Without being in the situation, it's hard to say what anyone would do. But the photos on twitter showed cramped carriages, no water or food for a significant period and I should imagine the toilets weren't in a good condition.

Quite a few photos I’ve seen of the interior were taken when the evacuation was underway. Obviously that’ll look busy, because everyone’s standing up and eager to get off...

Isn't that what happened anyway? Nonetheless, with the flooded track and access road, I dare say I'd have stayed put anyway.

No, the access point was cleared and passengers were escorted up some decent concrete steps to reach coaches. The main hazard identified once evacuation commenced seemed to be a lack of emergency lighting being available on the steps.

I shudder at the thought of a HST charging towards a landslip that no-one knows is there; under current weather conditions are HST's told to reduce speed in certain areas where landslips are possible even though they've never slid before?

If there is a prolonged gap in the train service, the driver of the next train will often be asked to examine any high-risk areas at a slower speed (something which also applies in the event of trees likely to be on the line after high winds, or if the line might be blocked by very heavy snow, etc.).

There are also geological sensor systems at riskier sites, which are often very sensitive, and when they are activated, the outputs will be assessed by on-call engineers.

In this case, it seems the landslide (or, to be specific, more of a silty mudslide) may have hit one power car of the train shortly after it stopped. The RAIB investigation, if there is one, should confirm any timeline. The drivers of the trains in the area hardly got themselves trapped completely in floodwater, just sufficiently that part of one train wouldn’t be able to move.

EMT HSTs still have dump-on-track toilets, which sounds to me like another reason to stay on the train. Unlike say the Lewisham situation they would have had light and heat and probably seats too.

They did. If passenger counts are to be believed, there should have been a few spare seats even with two train loads on one train.

 

[broadgage]

EMT HSTs still have dump-on-track toilets, which sounds to me like another reason to stay on the train. Unlike say the Lewisham situation they would have had light and heat and probably seats too.

I agree.
Had I been on this train, I would have stayed put.
Heating and lighting available.
Toilets probably unpleasant but useable in an emergency.

Had I been on the train at Lewisham, I would have been tempted to leave.

The CONDITIONS under which passengers are detained is IMO much more important than time for which they are detained.
Even an hours delay on a crush loaded train without toilets, lighting or heating is an emergency and may justify escape.
A delay of some hours on an HST with reasonable facilities is exceedingly inconvenient but NOT normally an emergency.

In THIS case I feel that "the railway" responded reasonably well to unusual and extreme circumstances.
In the Lewisham incident I consider that the response was very poor indeed.

 

[Kneedown]

Ive heard they all did a brilliant job and were all in good spirits on returning, if not a little moist from all the rain! Well done to all involved

Many thanks, I'll pass your kind words on. She was knackered bless her, but soon perked up after I got the single malt out!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Simple, the Driver will spot the landslide at a range of 150 yards travelling at 125mph, put their foot on the brake, WSP will kick in and bingo, disaster averted.

WSP exists to stop the kind of wheel damage that was caused to the Caledonian Mk5s the other day. You will get the best braking if you lock the wheels up and square them off, if it's that or hit something very nasty. ABS on cars isn't to improve braking performance, it's to allow the driver to attempt to steer round the obstruction, which is irrelevant for a train. Stick it in emergency and retreat into the back of the power car if possible/safe - there's really nothing more you can do.

(Sorry, I probably quoted the wrong post here - you were of course joking )

 

[Bletchleyite]

In THIS case I feel that "the railway" responded reasonably well to unusual and extreme circumstances.
In the Lewisham incident I consider that the response was very poor indeed.

I would agree. With a train in a dangerous outside situation with on board services working correctly, the priority need not be to get everyone off. If you've got a train with no heating, lighting, toilet facilities and a heavy standing load, that needs to be the FIRST thing under consideration. It depends on the situation.

I'm usually the first to criticise when there is a pointless 3 hour delay with no attempt at evacuation, but this (like the passengers who kipped on a 444 at Brockenhurst) is a very unusual situation.

 

[Robertj21a]

I agree.
Had I been on this train, I would have stayed put.
Heating and lighting available.
Toilets probably unpleasant but useable in an emergency.

Had I been on the train at Lewisham, I would have been tempted to leave.

The CONDITIONS under which passengers are detained is IMO much more important than time for which they are detained.
Even an hours delay on a crush loaded train without toilets, lighting or heating is an emergency and may justify escape.
A delay of some hours on an HST with reasonable facilities is exceedingly inconvenient but NOT normally an emergency.

In THIS case I feel that "the railway" responded reasonably well to unusual and extreme circumstances.
In the Lewisham incident I consider that the response was very poor indeed.

Quite agree with your comments about this Corby incident - and the Lewisham one.

 

[SilentGrade]

I don't know how good the Wheel Slide Protection is on HSTs in comparison to, say, a Meridian with computer controlled rheostatic brakes.

Considering the train was practically at a stand anyway it would have made exactly zero difference

 

[DarloRich]

Many thanks, I'll pass your kind words on. She was knackered bless her, but soon perked up after I got the single malt out!

A single malt for medicinal use? goodness me!

( fairplay after a 19 hour shift! I hope the chief is on the phone to offer some thanks)

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Against all advice, given the location and appalling conditions described, I would have detrained myself and family. I'm amazed people didn't, armed with GPS and maps on phones.

If you knew the state of the ballast, then you wouldn’t have detrained.
Some very smart people proposed some smart things in the conferences, and so contingency plans were put into place.
It was not an easy site to access, regardless of its proximity to access points.

 

[Mugby]

Apologies if I've missed something earlier in this thread but at the start it was said there were 600 people on the stranded train.

That seems a very high number for a normal Thursday service, why would it have had so many people on board?

 

[Spartacus]

Apologies if I've missed something earlier in this thread but at the start it was said there were 600 people on the stranded train.

That seems a very high number for a normal Thursday service, why would it have had so many people on board?

Because people make it up? Official figures I've seen are 190 on the initial train, 1D43, to be moved to 1C52, and a grand total of 290 who finally had to be detrained from 1C52.