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Last of the droplights

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43096

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Not all of the doors are power doors though. There are 2 slam doors and droplights on every set.
Same goes for GWR. But as they are in non-passenger accessible areas, that’s not really what was meant. This also applies to Class 150/1 units.
 

43 302

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The XC ones still have a door handle on the outside. But as mentioned they aren't in passenger use so I'm not sure they count.
 

Woolly

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One can only exclaim how we got to this situation.

Lack of personal responsibility I think.

Too true.
The blame all but yourself culture has virtually killed off anything of interest by the nonsense of 'do-gooders'.
 

PupCuff

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The XC HST catering vehicles (TCC) aren't 'as built' catering vehicles, they were modified, so they don't have the emergency door with the handles on the inside that you're referring to as normal Mk3 buffet vehicles do.

The XC HSTs retain slam doors on the TGS to access the van area, though these are (for passengers) emergency exits only and normally they wouldn't have access to that area.
 

hexagon789

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The XC HST catering vehicles (TCC) aren't 'as built' catering vehicles, they were modified, so they don't have the emergency door with the handles on the inside that you're referring to as normal Mk3 buffet vehicles do.

The XC HSTs retain slam doors on the TGS to access the van area, though these are (for passengers) emergency exits only and normally they wouldn't have access to that area.

Ah yes, sorry. I'm away thinking of TRFBs, forgetting XC's bespoke TCC vehicles.
 

pt_mad

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The XC HST catering vehicles (TCC) aren't 'as built' catering vehicles, they were modified, so they don't have the emergency door with the handles on the inside that you're referring to as normal Mk3 buffet vehicles do.

The XC HSTs retain slam doors on the TGS to access the van area, though these are (for passengers) emergency exits only and normally they wouldn't have access to that area.
Is the XC TGS where bicycles are stored?
 

warwickshire

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I’d forgotten Chiltern - any likelihood of a move to Mk4s in the future?
No. Watch out from June approx for more drop lights ufn. Current set is going only has a dispensation to end June. Watch out for a replacement Anglia mk3 slam door set. Due to toilets with tanks. Will have pis screens fitted and also a replacement disabilitie bay coach which will be the 1st class one. Ie ex Anglia one. Watch out for the mad scrambles for that coach complete with the leather seating. Another issue but one other ie mk3 set is.also going to locomotive services ie believe as well ie the owners off the two 90s ex Anglia for charter services ie not to be confused with the rest off 90s for fliner
 
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warwickshire

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Any news on scotrail mk 2 kirkcaldy circle. Does this end in may or has it been extended to December this year. I believe the hst slam is already planned to December off this year
 

pt_mad

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Any news on scotrail mk 2 kirkcaldy circle. Does this end in may or has it been extended to December this year. I believe the hst slam is already planned to December off this year
Seems to keep being extended. The DRS refurbished coaches are ok, but the ScotRail branded ones are looking very very tired now. There are still mirrors with the BR etched logo in some of the loos :lol:
 

Speed43125

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Seems to keep being extended. The DRS refurbished coaches are ok, but the ScotRail branded ones are looking very very tired now. There are still mirrors with the BR etched logo in some of the loos :lol:
I'd assume the 37 wales stuff will be cascaded to replace the 'non-refurb' Scotrail branded coaches then? Given most further uses of Mk4.s seem to retain the first class and DVT stock, giving 8 TS coaches to the fife circle would probably be sensible no? timeframe for something like this though is the great unknown, and I suspect, given the stock's sporadic use, it will be sort of granted temporary extensions for a while yet.
 

route101

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Seems to keep being extended. The DRS refurbished coaches are ok, but the ScotRail branded ones are looking very very tired now. There are still mirrors with the BR etched logo in some of the loos :lol:

How old are the Fife MK2s? Must be nearly 50
 

JonathanH

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They will replace the Fife Circle Mk2s with 170s as soon as the 170s don't need to cover for HSTs which haven't turned up yet.

Is there any chance of Scotrail losing a few 170s to eradicate Mk3s on Chiltern once the HSTs turn up?
I'm pretty sure Scotrail are thinking that they've lost enough 170s already tbh. I can't imagine they have 12 to spare.
 

43096

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They will replace the Fife Circle Mk2s with 170s as soon as the 170s don't need to cover for HSTs which haven't turned up yet.

https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/1214669254777331714

Is there any chance of Scotrail losing a few 170s to eradicate Mk3s on Chiltern once the HSTs turn up?
The only ScotRail 170s going anywhere are 170416-420 which are to transfer to EMR. The rest are all leased to the end of the franchise.
 

BRX

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The XC ones still have a door handle on the outside. But as mentioned they aren't in passenger use so I'm not sure they count.
For me, what counts is a droplight that is in a freely passenger accessible area, and which I can open and look out of. If the XC ones come under this category then that's good news, but it doesn't really sound like they do.
 

mde

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How old are the Fife MK2s? Must be nearly 50
They'll be having window bars fitted imminently, according to a recent ScotRail staff notice.

Image reads:
ScotRail said:
Notice to Traincrew
Window Bars on Mk2 Coaches

Over the next 2 months the MK2 coaching stock used on the Fife Circle
services will be having window bars refitted to reduce the risk of passenger
accidents involving drop light windows.
These bars will be fitted on the outside of the windows with the exception of
the guard's van which will be fitted internally. Staff and passengers will
require to reach through the bars to open the train doors when exiting the
trains.
This follows several incidents elsewhere in the Network where passengers
have been injured or killed following leaning or climbing out of the windows.
If passengers raise queries regarding these bars you can confirm that they
are a safety measure following recent incidents elsewhere on the Network.
88151917_190300822298258_2920611300679614464_n.jpg
 

Journeyman

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One can only exclaim how we got to this situation.

Lack of personal responsibility I think.

Droplights are now completely unnecessary and demonstrably far more dangerous than other types of door. On the one hand, you have enthusiasts here acting like they know what they're doing and should be allowed to stick their heads out of windows, and on the other, the guy who got pretty much decapitated on Gatwick Express not long ago was a railway employee and heritage volunteer who absolutely should have known better.

They have to go.
 

yorksrob

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Droplights are now completely unnecessary and demonstrably far more dangerous than other types of door. On the one hand, you have enthusiasts here acting like they know what they're doing and should be allowed to stick their heads out of windows, and on the other, the guy who got pretty much decapitated on Gatwick Express not long ago was a railway employee and heritage volunteer who absolutely should have known better.

They have to go.

Those were tragic accidents, but those people had the benefit of one hundred and fifty years of railway history with drop-lights to fall back on.

There's no more reason for doing away with droplights on the railway than there is for doing away with motor-cars on the highway.
 

yorksrob

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At the end of the day,it was a tragic accident. The lad disobeyed the clearly displayed instructions and paid the price.

I see no reason whatsoever why the railway should change its practices as a result of this incident.
 

mde

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At the end of the day,it was a tragic accident. The lad disobeyed the clearly displayed instructions and paid the price.
The RAIB and ORR seem to disagree about those clearly displayed instructions. Take paragraph 49 in the RAIB report, for example… ignoring for a moment that the lad in question would have had railway knowledge, which of the signs depicted makes it absolutely clear that you shouldn't do what was being done?

A safety issue was recognised, it was dealt with by means of significantly improved signage amongst other things; but times do change, therefore it's only right that this anachronism is removed. The PRM deadline provided a convenient way of removing most of the problem, the few bits that remain are easily mitigated.
 

yorksrob

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The RAIB and ORR seem to disagree about those clearly displayed instructions. Take paragraph 49 in the RAIB report, for example… ignoring for a moment that the lad in question would have had railway knowledge, which of the signs depicted makes it absolutely clear that you shouldn't do what was being done?

A safety issue was recognised, it was dealt with by means of significantly improved signage amongst other things; but times do change, therefore it's only right that this anachronism is removed. The PRM deadline provided a convenient way of removing most of the problem, the few bits that remain are easily mitigated.

The lad had the knowledge and he took the risk.

I don't understand why I'm expected to agree with this infantilisation of the population regarding droplights when we've existed perfectly happily as a society with droplights for one hundred and fifty years.

There is no good reason for doing away with them, and you won't find me saying otherwise.
 

bramling

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The lad had the knowledge and he took the risk.

I don't understand why I'm expected to agree with this infantilisation of the population regarding droplights when we've existed perfectly happily as a society with droplights for one hundred and fifty years.

There is no good reason for doing away with them, and you won't find me saying otherwise.

There’s always, unfortunately, the problem that as something diminishes and becomes a rarity people are no longer familiar with it. Like slam doors for example, back in the day most people would have been well aware of how to use them safely. Recently I went in a preserved railway with a friend who’s not really railway minded, and he tried the handle of a slam door whilst the train was moving (fortunately without incident), and subsequently expressed shock and surprise at the discovery they could actually be opened on the move. He couldn’t believe that all trains were once like that.

Having said that, I agree with your sentiments. A tiny number of incidents whose basic cause was injudicious passenger behaviour shouldn’t result in a knee-jerk reaction.
 
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The lad had the knowledge and he took the risk.

I don't understand why I'm expected to agree with this infantilisation of the population regarding droplights when we've existed perfectly happily as a society with droplights for one hundred and fifty years.

There is no good reason for doing away with them, and you won't find me saying otherwise.
Thankfully the railways are run by sensible people who view the preservation of life and the prevention of accidents to be a desirable outcome. Even when in the opinion of some enthusiasts it's possible to pin all the blame on the victim and say that they should have known better.

Accidents happen because people make mistakes, they make bad decisions or don't think things through properly, or maybe they're just unlucky. No-one's journey home should be ending in their death though, the fact that someone makes a mistake or a bad choice does not in the slightest mean that it's ok to blame them and do nothing about it.

I hate assigning blame to human error. Barring suicide (which is tragic and all efforts should be made to prevent it also) people don't end up dead or seriously injured on the railway by choice. If they or someone else made a mistake or a misunderstanding that causes an accident then we need to find out why or how this came to happen, what other factors influenced how they made a decision. In the case of droplight windows on trains there's usually only a small warning sign which doesn't really communicate the nature of the danger. Similarly passengers rarely ride trains equipped with them and don't fully understand the risks. Do they know there could be little/no clearance from branches and less than 30 centimeters from static obstacles?

No good reason for doing away with them? People being killed is a good enough reason in my book.
 

Journeyman

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The lad had the knowledge and he took the risk.

I don't understand why I'm expected to agree with this infantilisation of the population regarding droplights when we've existed perfectly happily as a society with droplights for one hundred and fifty years.

There is no good reason for doing away with them, and you won't find me saying otherwise.

As someone with a lot of experience in rail safety, I think that's a shockingly ignorant opinion. If you took it to it's logical extreme, we wouldn't bother doing anything after accidents, and the railway would still routinely kill a few dozen people at a time in horrific accidents.

Unprotected droplights are completely unnecessary on a modern railway, and shouldn't be kept just because a few enthusiasts like to stick their heads out of them.
 
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