Last trains which should be later

[mangyiscute]

But on a sunday the first departure CBG to IPS isn't untill 09:00, which is rather late.

If I'm honest, 0900 on Sundays is pretty good going for a lot of routes - for example the first reading to Oxford train is the 0915

 

[DannyMich2018]

If I'm honest, 0900 on Sundays is pretty good going for a lot of routes - for example the first reading to Oxford train is the 0915

The poor people of Melton Mowbray on Sunday's don't see a train in either direction till gone Midday.....

 

[dk1]

If I'm honest, 0900 on Sundays is pretty good going for a lot of routes - for example the first reading to Oxford train is the 0915

Which is a huge improvement on what it was for many years. The all day everyday frequency on that route is amazing now too.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

If I'm honest, 0900 on Sundays is pretty good going for a lot of routes - for example the first reading to Oxford train is the 0915

It is, anything before 8am would currently be seen as a great service. Many train crews wouldn't mind Sundays running to Saturday service levels, the question becomes whether it's part of the working week but the volume of passengers is there for sure.

 

[Class 170101]

What's that got to do with it? On the Manchester to Chester via Altrincham line the latest service operates out of Manchester, despite the Northern crews being based in Manchester. Any trains returning to the depot take the shorter route via Warrington and go back out-of-service.

But thats an argument to withdraw the ECS moves referred to anf hand them over to the train crew depot that operates in passenger service to Chester and leave them in the sidings there.

 

[Howardh]

I'd love a 2300 departure from Euston to Manchester, but the issue would be arriving at just after 1am with no onward travel, other than a taxi @ £35+, so it's either that, an overnight stay in London or Manchester.

If I wanted to have a night in London, I'd stay over at a cheap hotel such as the Hub.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I'd love a 2300 departure from Euston to Manchester, but the issue would be arriving at just after 1am with no onward travel, other than a taxi @ £35+, so it's either that, an overnight stay in London or Manchester.

If I wanted to have a night in London, I'd stay over at a cheap hotel such as the Hub.

£35 is still way cheaper than any hotel in Central London. It also means you don't need a day off work!

 

[Howardh]

£35 is still way cheaper than any hotel in Central London. It also means you don't need a day off work!

I'm retired, and a room in Kings Cross last night cost £52! That taxi fare was from a couple of years ago, could well be over £40 these days, I know it is from Bolton to the airport.

 

[MP393]

But thats an argument to withdraw the ECS moves referred to anf hand them over to the train crew depot that operates in passenger service to Chester and leave them in the sidings there.

Only Manchester Piccadilly guards sign Manchester - Chester via Altrincham, with the last two services being worked with Manchester Victoria drivers who bring the stock back via Warrington (MCV drivers sign both ways to Chester)

Northern have no traincrew based in Chester, so the only option is being the unit back empty to being the crew back, or leave the unit there and taxi back (this happens on Saturday nights.)

 

[_toommm_]

Only Manchester Piccadilly guards sign Manchester - Chester via Altrincham, with the last two services being worked with Manchester Victoria drivers who bring the stock back via Warrington (MCV drivers sign both ways to Chester)

Northern have no traincrew based in Chester, so the only option is being the unit back empty to being the crew back, or leave the unit there and taxi back (this happens on Saturday nights.)

When a service is running ECS, do the guards need the required route knowledge too (I’m guessing it’s a yes).

 

[MP393]

When a service is running ECS, do the guards need the required route knowledge too (I’m guessing it’s a yes).

No, or not here anyway. (Maybe other TOCs have different rules I’m not sure)

Picc guards don’t sign via Warrington but just travel “pass” on the empties, they don’t sign the route.

 

[Watershed]

When a service is running ECS, do the guards need the required route knowledge too (I’m guessing it’s a yes).

No, ECSs at most TOCs run "DOO". Hence there is no requirement for a guard to be present, and if they are present, they do not need to sign the route.

The driver's diagram will denote any other traincrew due to pass on their ECS, to ensure they don't leave without them!

 

[Grumpy Git]

I'm retired, and a room in Kings Cross last night cost £52! That taxi fare was from a couple of years ago, could well be over £40 these days, I know it is from Bolton to the airport.

But how many "Northerners" who would love to visit a late afternoon/evening attraction in London aren't retired? Having to stay overnight AND therefore use holidays for the following day is a very costly "day out"/

Levelling-up my backside!

 

[Horizon22]

If I'm honest, 0900 on Sundays is pretty good going for a lot of routes - for example the first reading to Oxford train is the 0915

Sundays are bad all over the place (and I'd say worse than than late nights but that's not the topic!), but particularly on the GWML due to extended possessions on a Sunday morning.

As for last trains, whilst departure trains might seem early, if it is especially long-distance you need to think about the arrival time and possession requirements down the line. GWR are surprisingly good in this regard and have a 2248 to Swansea which gets in at a rather anti-social 0227 and a 2202 to Plymouth (via Bristol) at a lovely 0210. I'd say this is against the norm and from London long-distance it really should be around 2200xx for a 3+ hour journey, 2300xx for a 2 hour journey, and 0000-0100 for the locals. Journeys ending past 0200 can't be much fun!

Some places also have shuttles running a bit later after the direct journey finishes.

 

[lachlan]

The last train south from Aberdeen now appears to be the 22:28 to Perth. Very disappointing there is not even a Inverurie-Montrose shuttle after this. There is a bus, the X7, but its last departure from Aberdeen appears to be 23:20 which isn't great either.

Funny how things change, I distinctly remember there was once a gap in the timetable with a departure around 9pm then nothing until after 11! Now our last train is at half ten.

 

[A0wen]

The last train to Stoke from Manchester on a Saturday is 21.43 - which is far too early if you've gone into Manchester for a show or concert.

It's 22.18 Mon - Fri - which isn't much better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The last train to Stoke from Manchester on a Saturday is 21.43 - which is far too early if you've gone into Manchester for a show or concert.

It's 22.18 Mon - Fri - which isn't much better.

TBH the last trains to most of Manchester's hinterland are about an hour too early (last trains on short journeys should really be about 2330 to allow for what you say). I suspect the railway is happy with that as that means 1-2 fewer pints in anyone who uses them.

I suppose for a theatre show you can do a Saturday matinee, but concerts don't tend to offer that option.

 

[Watershed]

TBH the last trains to most of Manchester's hinterland are about an hour too early (last trains on short journeys should really be about 2330 to allow for what you say). I suspect the railway is happy with that as that means 1-2 fewer pints in anyone who uses them.

I suppose for a theatre show you can do a Saturday matinee, but concerts don't tend to offer that option.

Last trains to several other stations in the Manchester area are around 23:30, but as with many things, Stoke and Macclesfield lose out when it comes to first and last trains.

 

[Deerfold]

For me, the last train from Edinburgh to London on Sat being at 17:30 was horrific (and Newcastle as 19:02) although Lumo have added a service a half hour later it is still too early IMO considering there's a 7pm sundays and 8pm m-f now.

I'd argue for Reading to London as 24 hour besides Sunday morning - from pad to RDG there's an 0040, 0140, 0334 and 0506 through the night, and going towards London its 0018, 0115, 0224, 0355 and 0434 so I don't really see a big gap anywhere. However, there is like a 7 hour gap on Sunday mornings

London to Reading was hourly overnight, but the 0234 and 0434 disappeared around December 2001, just after I'd moved to live near the line. I lived between Burnham and Taplow stations - annoyingly neither was served overnight, but it was an hour walk from Slough or Maidenhead.

Last trains to several other stations in the Manchester area are around 23:30, but as with many things, Stoke and Macclesfield lose out when it comes to first and last trains.

The last train from Manchester Victoria to Halifax and Bradford is a reasonable 2318. Except on a Saturday when it's 2256 and misses various smaller stations out completely -the last stopping service is 2121.

They've put two later trains on from Leeds to Hebden Bridge (2242 and 2257), but they both miss out 3 of the 8 stations so their last train is still 2212. It does seem odd to run expresses after the last stopper.

 

[telstarbox]

But how many "Northerners" who would love to visit a late afternoon/evening attraction in London aren't retired? Having to stay overnight AND therefore use holidays for the following day is a very costly "day out"/

Levelling-up my backside!

True levelling up would be providing equivalent attractions in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield to avoid the need for cross country travel, and the Northern cities do seem to be going that way. As an example it would be unusual for an American band not to do at least one tour date in the north (and Scotland) as well as a London venue.

 

[Tayway]

The last train south from Aberdeen now appears to be the 22:28 to Perth. Very disappointing there is not even a Inverurie-Montrose shuttle after this. There is a bus, the X7, but its last departure from Aberdeen appears to be 23:20 which isn't great either.

Funny how things change, I distinctly remember there was once a gap in the timetable with a departure around 9pm then nothing until after 11! Now our last train is at half ten.

From next week there's no southbound trains at all after the 21:06 to Dundee thanks to ScotRail's emergency timetable.

Some other poor showings with regards to last trains are 19:49 from Glasgow to Stirling, 19:40 from Edinburgh to North Berwick, and 19:10 from Glasgow to Dundee.

 

[Deerfold]

True levelling up would be providing equivalent attractions in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield to avoid the need for cross country travel, and the Northern cities do seem to be going that way. As an example it would be unusual for an American band not to do at least one tour date in the north (and Scotland) as well as a London venue.

One in the North, but trains aren't set up for most people to get back from anywhere other than their nearest city. We manage gigs in Bradford and Leeds, but our bus routes runs the last 2 buses out to anywhere and our train from Leeds is almost the last one that isn't TPE. Anywhere else needs a stay away (or an overnight coach and a wait in Leeds, which I'll do, but my wife won't).

 

[krus_aragon]

In contrast to the opposite direction the North Wales coast line has a very early finish eastbound. The last departure is 20.32 from Holyhead and 21.01 from Bangor.

You could take the last train to Chester and have more than 2 hours there before returning at 00.40, a very extreme imbalance.

I did this very thing (from Bangor) after my graduation ceremony: my friends and I decided our night out wasn't finished at 9pm so we relocated to Chester for the rest of the night, before catching a train home along the coast to our respective intermediate stations.

 

[MikeWM]

I was very surprised recently to notice that nothing, to anywhere, goes from Newcastle after 2300 on weekdays. On a Saturday, 2238. And even worse on a Sunday - everything finishes before 2200 (with the exception of a Lumo to Edinburgh at 2209).

Obviously the metro runs significantly later if you're lucky enough to live near somewhere it serves, but for a large city well-known for its nightlife this seems really oddly poor.

 

[miklcct]

The last train from Waterloo to Bournemouth now is a very reasonable 23:35 Mon-Sat / 23:05 Sun, although it's usually bustituted from Southampton Central onwards between Monday - Thursday.

However, in the opposite direction, the last train from Bournemouth to Waterloo is 21:12 Monday - Friday!!! More than 2 hours before the other direction! Only on a Saturday it's a reasonable 22:12 and on Sunday it's 22:08. The 22:12 on Saturday is basically an all-stop service which stops at every station on the Waterloo-Weymouth / Poole / Portsmouth / Basingstoke / Alton services except Beaulieu Road, with arrival into Waterloo at 01:04, with the 23:12 final departure terminating at Eastleigh. In contrast, on Monday-Friday, the 22:12 service terminates at Woking, which is the final up departure from Bournemouth.

 

[Watershed]

The last train from Waterloo to Bournemouth now is a very reasonable 23:35 Mon-Sat / 23:05 Sun, although it's usually bustituted from Southampton Central onwards between Monday - Thursday.

However, in the opposite direction, the last train from Bournemouth to Waterloo is 21:12 Monday - Friday!!! More than 2 hours before the other direction! Only on a Saturday it's a reasonable 22:12 and on Sunday it's 22:08. The 22:12 on Saturday is basically an all-stop service which stops at every station on the Waterloo-Weymouth / Poole / Portsmouth / Basingstoke / Alton services except Beaulieu Road, with arrival into Waterloo at 01:04, with the 23:12 final departure terminating at Eastleigh. In contrast, on Monday-Friday, the 22:12 service terminates at Woking, which is the final up departure from Bournemouth.

These kinds of unbalanced first/last services are common. You'll find them on most operators that run to/from London, with much earlier first trains towards London and much later last trains out of London. I suppose it generally reflects the demand.

 

[miklcct]

Sudbury & Harrow Road - London Marylebone

Last train 10:44 for a 14-minute journey to London. I can't think of a worse service than this.

 

[Watershed]

Sudbury & Harrow Road - London Marylebone

Last train 10:44 for a 14-minute journey to London. I can't think of a worse service than this.

Pretty bad, albeit there are services later in the evening if you double back at Northolt Park, Sudbury Hill Harrow, South or West Ruislip, all of which can be done at no extra cost when using Oyster.

Of course realistically speaking, if you miss the 10:44 you'll just take the Tube instead from Sudbury Hill LU station. Passenger numbers suggest that the vast majority of people do that anyway.

 

[class26]

Wick has the last train south at 16.00

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wick has the last train south at 16.00

Any later and you'd miss the evening's Caledonian Sleeper from Inverness.