Late train and missed connection to season ticket travel

[cb a1]

Reading this forum is illuminating in the challenges of ticketing!

After my Northern trains cancellation, my return trip home was also affected.

I'm going from Manchester Piccadilly to Dundee. I've a TPE ticket from Manchester to Haymarket. From there I catch a Scotrail train to Dundee.

I have an annual season ticket which enables me to travel from Haymarket to Dundee.

16:26 from Manchester due in to Haymarket at 19:32 (on TPE ticket)
19:39 from Haymarket gets me to Dundee at 20:42 (on Scotrail annual season ticket)

TPE train is (IIRC) 13 minutes late to Haymarket so I miss my connection and catch the 20:04 and am back in Dundee at 21:33.

Am I entitled to any Delay Repay from TPE as I was 51 minutes late getting to my final destination or in their eyes am I only 13 minutes late?

 

[gray1404]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel allows you to use one or more tickets to make your journey. Therefore you are find using the combination you used. In terms of delay repay, this is also to be paid out when using a valid combination of ticket provided you also have allowed the minimum connection times between trains. You have allowed at least 5 minutes out Haymarket so no problems there.

Delay repay is based on arrival time at your final destination so therefore TPE need you pay out based on the fact the delay to their train caused you you to miss your connection and arrive at your final destination 51 minutes late.

What sort of ticket were you travelling on between Manchester and Edinburgh? I am asking this so we can, having established you do have a valid claim with TPE, work out how much you are entitled to.

 

[cb a1]

Thanks vert much.
Ticket is an advanced single valid on specified TPE trains only at a cost of £39.70.

 

[gray1404]

So for a 51 minute delay you would be entitled to 50% of your Advance Single ticket plus a % of the cost of the season ticket. I am not sure how this would be calculated though? Anyone know, would it be based on the price of an Anytime Single between Edinburgh and Dundee or something else?

What is important is that you submit your claim to TPE within 28 days from when it happened.

 

[yorkie]

It would be the sum of the two calculations. You would not make up a fare that wasn't held.

Unfortunately a complex claim such as this, involving Single and Season tickets, can reduce the likelihood of the correct amount being paid and/or of the claim being made in a timely manner.

 

[cb a1]

To add to the complexity, my season ticket is Dundee to Glasgow. Travel via Edinburgh is a permitted route which is useful as I go to Edinburgh pretty frequently. This is especially useful if I'm going to England as it gives me a much broader choice of trains from either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

 

[yorkie]

It's going to be a small amount, as it'll be worked out based on the formula TPE use for Season tickets, bearing in mind also it was a delay of 30-59 minutes in one direction only for only a portion of the 'journey' the Season covers.

If it was me I'd accept the value of that to be so low (maybe £4?) as to not worth fussing over and be happy with 50% of the £39.70 for the Advance ticket. Just getting that might be a battle.

 

[cb a1]

Aye, a 30 to 59 minute delay on Dundee to Glasgow is something like £5.90, so a portion of that is most likely to be under £4.
I'm certainly not going to fight over it, but from a professional perspective, it's very interesting to learn about all this complexity.

 

[yorkie]

If it was me I'd be sending a photo of both tickets and make it clear my journey was through to Dundee (I'd list my planned itinerary vs actual timings in tabular format) and say to keep it simple can I have 50% of the TPE ticket cost as compensation.

The problem with complex queries is they can get severely delayed or even forgotten about, in my experience.

The main thing is that the fact your journey was to Dundee resulted in a delay of a qualifying length for Delay Repay to apply.

 

[gray1404]

I agree it is worth claiming because you are entitled to 50% of the cost of the Advance ticket. Had you not been travelling through to Dundee with your season ticket you would not be entitled to this so it is vital that present this as a through journey.

If you have any problems i.e. you submit your claim and they don't accept it or refuse to look at it again having got it wrong, I do have the email address for someone in Management at TPE with the authority to sort these sort of things out so let me know.

 

[cb a1]

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

For information, this is the response I've just had from TPE:

"Decision: Unsuccessful

We’re sorry you experienced a delay. We’ve reviewed your claim and calculated there was no delay. In this instance no compensation is due.

We used the following information to calculate your delay:

The intended leg from 16:26 MANCHESTER PICCADILLY left at 16:36, scheduled to arrive at HAYMARKET at 19:32, actually arrived 19:46.
The intended leg from 20:04 HAYMARKET left at 20:05, scheduled to arrive at DUNDEE at 21:33, arrived on time.

Total journey delay: No delay - your intended arrival time was 21:33 and the calculated arrival time for your journey was 21:33."

I have appealed the decision, once again giving them the train times that I planned to use (see OP). This was all in the original claim. The only reason I can see for them denying me is that I didn't leave sufficient connection time at Haymarket.

Is the '5 minute connection' time applicable across all operators?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

For information, this is the response I've just had from TPE:

"Decision: Unsuccessful

We’re sorry you experienced a delay. We’ve reviewed your claim and calculated there was no delay. In this instance no compensation is due.

We used the following information to calculate your delay:

The intended leg from 16:26 MANCHESTER PICCADILLY left at 16:36, scheduled to arrive at HAYMARKET at 19:32, actually arrived 19:46.
The intended leg from 20:04 HAYMARKET left at 20:05, scheduled to arrive at DUNDEE at 21:33, arrived on time.

Total journey delay: No delay - your intended arrival time was 21:33 and the calculated arrival time for your journey was 21:33."

I have appealed the decision, once again giving them the train times that I planned to use (see OP). This was all in the original claim. The only reason I can see for them denying me is that I didn't leave sufficient connection time at Haymarket.

Is the '5 minute connection' time applicable across all operators?

The minimum interchange time at Haymarket is 5 minutes across all operators.

I am not surprised TPE have incorrectly rejected your Delay Repay claim; this is normal behaviour across several TOCs at the moment, despite being incorrect.

 

[gray1404]

5 minutes is the minimum connection time for Haymarket. You have done the right thing appealing and making them aware of the correct times of the connection you intended on using. Please let us know the outcome.

 

[cb a1]

Good news. TPE accepted my dispute and have refunded me 50% of my TPE fare. I'm not going to bother trying to get anything back on my season ticket - life's too short.

Thanks again folks for the advice. Much appreciated.

 

[gray1404]

It is wrong that they offered you nothing for the additional leg. I can half expect them to get the calculation wrong as its a season ticket, but to offer zero is wrong.

 

[mmh]

It is wrong that they offered you nothing for the additional leg. I can half expect them to get the calculation wrong as its a season ticket, but to offer zero is wrong.

What would the correct calculation have been?

 

[maniacmartin]

Delay Repay for season tickets is calculated based on an assumption that the season ticket will be used for a certain number of journeys per year. I believe this number can vary by TOC, but it is in the region of 200 or 240 journeys. So you divide the cost of the season ticket by this number to get the cost of a single journey for the purposes of Delay Repay calculations.

 

[yorkie]

It is wrong that they offered you nothing for the additional leg. I can half expect them to get the calculation wrong as its a season ticket, but to offer zero is wrong.

As per my posts above, I am all up for protecting customers rights, but the main thing here is to recognise that the high value ticket should be compensated for; arguing over something that is difficult to calculate that would be something between £3 and £5 isn't worth it.

Anyway I've closed the thread as the issue is resolved.