Least improved line

[TEW]

Really? The service is massively improved and it is the second fastest growing line in the country.

It has gone from an irregular service pattern, then to every hour and there are now three trains per two hours, with an hourly service on Sundays which was introduced a few years ago; there have been no regular Sunday services, aside from a short trial in the early 2000s, for decades. Trains now run for much longer in the day also; the number of services operated per week has almost doubled.

Pacers don't go anywhere near the line either; it is 150s mostly.

Stations are now much improved with artwork, regular cleaning, floral displays, CCTV and realtime information thanks to work put in by the local Community Rail Partnership, Great Western and Bristol City and South Gloucestershire councils.

If anything, it is a line that has probably changed beyond recognition since privatisation!

Don't forget before the timetable change to the current 40 minutely frequency about 10 years ago, under the old hourly frequency, all Off Peak services terminated at Avonmouth. Services on to Severn Beach were peak only with a bus Off Peak.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Island Line? As I understand from the other thread this line hasn't seen any improvements since it was electrified by BR and the 38 Tube stock was introduced.

 

[lincolnshire]

Morecambe to Heysham Port?

What the point of having more trains as all there is there is a connection with the Isle of man ferry service which it quite successfully does 6 days a week as there is no ferry service on a Sunday.
As the station is within the Peel Ports complex and nothing else there whats the point of more trains going?If you miss the train its send for a taxi or walk to Heysham village for a bus thats if Peel Ports will let you walk through the port complex?

 

[AM9]

Island Line? As I understand from the other thread this line hasn't seen any improvements since it was electrified by BR and the 38 Tube stock was introduced.

When electrified in 1967, the line originally had ex LU '1923 Standard' stock, i.e. tube trains from the '20s, given classes 485 & 486. The '38s (given class 483) were luxury compared to what they had replaced.

 

[466.networkers]

How about the Sheerness Branch?

2 tph between the two termini and also now 2 tpd to/from Victoria in the peaks, and Networkers since Dec 06 so this line has had improvements for sure.

 

[Welly]

I agree. I remember travelling from Retford to Lincoln a few times and even once to Cleethorpes at the very end of Arriva Trains Northern days (I would have been about 8 I think). I can remember looking at the timetable and seeing that trains to Sheffield left at 23 minute past the hour and trains to Lincoln left at 3 minutes past the hour. It's pretty much the same today and I don't know how long this pattern was true before this.

Add this to the fact that the same trains are still used- Pacers with the occasional 153 or 158- and I don't think the line has seen much improvement in the last 20 years.

I disagree. 20 odd years ago there were gaps of 2 hours in service on the Lincoln Sheffield service during the day between 9am and 11am and also between 2pm and 4pm. Privatisation abolished the gaps and brought in an hourly service albeit with Class 141 Pacers!!

 

[edwin_m]

While the Nottingham-Lincoln Sunday service may still be pretty desultory, the weekday service has been improved by extension of Matlock trains to Newark and corresponding removal of stops from the through trains. Before that there were the Lincoln-London trains by two operators, although unfortunately the planned two-hourly East Coast service didn't happen. So it can't really be said that the route overall hasn't improved.

The promised Northern service improvements will do something similar for Sheffield-Lincoln, and probably help some of the other routes mentioned here too.

Nuneaton-Leicester is one line where the service has deteriorated since the turn of the century, although the remaining trains are worked by more modern units. As well as the 2TPH that remain it used to have two more, providing hourly through services to Coventry, 2TPH to Nottingham and 3TPH to Birmingham.

I agree Derby-Crewe is another one that has gone backwards with no real prospect of improvement.

 

[Springs Branch]

Wigan - Kirkby has been languishing for years and the future isn't necessarily brighter.

There are hourly trains, but no evening or Sunday service.

There is occasional barely-plausible talk of rail connection to Skelmersdale, or extending the 3rd rail to Wigan Wallgate. But there have also been mutterings (speculation at this stage, of course) that after the Bolton/Wigan in-fill electrification, the Kirkby line will become a simple Wigan Wallgate/Kirkby shuttle.

 

[Iskra]

Doncaster - Leeds

Stock: same (322's = more of the same really, don't they?)
Service: same
Stations: Wakefield Westgate's changed a bit, Display screens, that's it.

1) The 322's are newly refurbished.
2) Wakey Westgate has improved immeasurably, not a bit. Leeds has also been improved.
3) The service was and still is perfectly adequate.
4) Most other Northern Rail commuters would bite your hand off for every train to be 4 carriages and even better for it to be a relatively pleasant, reliable EMU service.

 

[backontrack]

By far the Liverpool St - Enfield Town and Cheshunt services. Regressed badly since the early 00's

Hardly. Many northern towns and cities have come off much, much worse.

 

[hulabaloo]

Bromley North to Grove Park. Never seem to be timed to connect with other services, far easier and quicker to catch a bus instead.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Bristol Temple Meads - Severn Beach branch line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severn_Beach_Line

Really? The service is massively improved and it is the second fastest growing line in the country.
If anything, it is a line that has probably changed beyond recognition since privatisation!

Quite. And once BRI is wired surely a quite high priority for a sparks fill in scheme.

 

[clagmonster]

Doncaster - Leeds

Stock: same (322's = more of the same really, don't they?)
Service: same
Stations: Wakefield Westgate's changed a bit, Display screens, that's it.

Added to the refurbed units mentioned above, is there not now an additional service in the peaks? The Doncaster - Adwick shorts are a relatively recent innovation too.

 

[notlob.divad]

Wigan - Kirkby has been languishing for years and the future isn't necessarily brighter.

There are hourly trains, but no evening or Sunday service.

There is occasional barely-plausible talk of rail connection to Skelmersdale, or extending the 3rd rail to Wigan Wallgate. But there have also been mutterings (speculation at this stage, of course) that after the Bolton/Wigan in-fill electrification, the Kirkby line will become a simple Wigan Wallgate/Kirkby shuttle.

Ditto the Ormskirk-Preston shuttle, although I think the Sunday service may return soon on that.

Given the huge developments of the universities and the subsequent rise in student numbers at Edge Hill, Ormskirk and UCLA, Preston over the last 10 years I am surprised that the obvious investment of improving the through connectivity on this line has not been taken.

For me, these two lines, Ellesmere Port to Helsby and Wreham - Bidston must be up there as lines that have gone backwards. Rather than improved.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Ditto the Ormskirk-Preston shuttle, although I think the Sunday service may return soon on that.

Given the huge developments of the universities and the subsequent rise in student numbers at Edge Hill, Ormskirk and UCLA, Preston over the last 10 years I am surprised that the obvious investment of improving the through connectivity on this line has not been taken.

I had forgotten about that and my 2nd home outside the US is Preston. How would they improve ? Remove buffers so through to LPL central restore the curves so through to Southport. Electrification is surely so far down the list of priorities it will not happen in my life time or just better frequency?

 

[Kettledrum]

I would propose Crewe to Derby for this mark of distinction. Used to be Crewe to Nottingham (or at one time Skegness,a lot further) used to be 3-car classic DMUs then 2-car, now single 153s all day unless it's Uttoxeter races on a Saturday, weekdays no spare stock available. I used to go somewhere else or take leave on those days.

I would also nominate Crewe to Derby as one of the least improved and neglected routes, and it's baffling why there has been so little investment in it.

With major railway junctions at either end, this has the potential to be a key railway artery. The single coach trains, (of which there is only one per hour) are often full to overflowing when I use it off peak, except for the evening when the service peters out to an early finish. Often I arrange to stay away rather than risk being stranded if I miss the last train.

The lines users are a complete cross section of society - with lots of students and people trying to get connections to Manchester airport.... and of course race days in Uttoxeter.

It appears to be in desperate need of investment to address:

- lots of old fashioned level crossings and signal boxes (is that why the line shuts early in the evening and is closed all night?).
- single coach diesel trains, and only one per hour
- low line speeds

Enabling more people to travel to work between Nottingham, Derby, Uttoxeter, Stoke on Trent, Crewe with easier connections to Manchester and Liverpool should bring big economic benefits, but the line always gets ignored.......

.....except for the recent hair-brained scheme to remove the double track in one of the tunnels and make it single track. I hoped we'd consigned that sort of negligence or railway self-inflicted vandalism to the past.....

Shame.

 

[notlob.divad]

I had forgotten about that and my 2nd home outside the US is Preston. How would they improve ? Remove buffers so through to LPL central restore the curves so through to Southport. Electrification is surely so far down the list of priorities it will not happen in my life time or just better frequency?

Any improvement would need investment and probably pretty serious investment at that which is probably what is leaving it in the doldrums. Maybe the new Merseyrail stock whatever that may turn out to be will give a more plausible some solution.

 

[tbtc]

Blaenau Ffestiniog has been pretty static over the years.

Island Line? As I understand from the other thread this line hasn't seen any improvements since it was electrified by BR and the 38 Tube stock was introduced.

I suppose, in fairness, these are both lines with falling/static passenger numbers, so I can understand the lack of investment (though obviously this is usually the cue for someone to suggest that lines showing the least promise being the ones that need the most money spent on them!)

Cambrian Coast had through Class 158's to BHM and the same frequency 15 years ago.

You don't think that the Cambrian has seen improvements over the past fifteen years?

It must have one of the highest "infrastructure costs per passenger" in terms of the investment in redoubling?

Goole to Knottingley

Can not see why they can not run a 2 hourly shuttle that just runs Goole to Knottingley & Return.

Why though? What population is there between the two places?

(given that plenty of towns in Yorkshire are crying out for extra DMU resources)

Barnsley's line

I don't know whether you mean one of the three routes out of Barnsley, or all of them (?), but over the fifteen years that the OP suggested, Barnsley has seen it's service to Sheffield increased from three stoppers per hour to four services per hour (two stoppers, two only stopping at Meadowhall).

The service from Leeds has been tripled (the tediously slow service via Castleford - that takes around fifty minutes to cover twenty miles as the crow flies - being enhanced by two semi-fast services that only take around half an hour).

Is that not a slight improvement on Barnsley's lines?

I agree. I remember travelling from Retford to Lincoln a few times and even once to Cleethorpes at the very end of Arriva Trains Northern days (I would have been about 8 I think). I can remember looking at the timetable and seeing that trains to Sheffield left at 23 minute past the hour and trains to Lincoln left at 3 minutes past the hour. It's pretty much the same today and I don't know how long this pattern was true before this.

Add this to the fact that the same trains are still used- Pacers with the occasional 153 or 158- and I don't think the line has seen much improvement in the last 20 years.

The infrastructure has improved as most of it has been resignalled with Lincoln to Retford having had new LED signals installed controlled by a VDU based system, and the mechanical signal boxes at Worksop were replaced by a Power Signal Box in the 90's. LED signals can now be also found between Retford and Sheffield in many places and new track has been installed recently on some stretches as well. The stations have seen improvement as well to be fair with PIS systems installed at a few stations only recently.

However, as far as the trains and timetable are concerned, nothing has really changed in a long time.

I don't think that the Sheffield to Lincoln via Worksop is very clever.

That's the first thing that came to mind (an hourly Pacer or single 153 taking 1h20 to cover under fifty miles of flat countryside, no service before half one on Sunday lunchtime, stuck in a timewarp).

The best defence I can give is the extension to Meadowhall (which I think was in the fifteen year period quantified by the OP?) - obviously with through running to/from Huddersfield/ Adwick/ Scunthorpe at various times.

It will also see through running to Leeds, under the new Northern franchise (plus off-peak extras from Sheffield to Worksop/ Retford), plus through services to Leeds, though "future improvements" maybe aren't what this thread is about.

It's not great though.

Manchester Piccadilly - Glossop/Hadfield, was every 20 minutes, Mon-Fri, all day (peak and off-peak) when North Western Trains started in 1996, reduced to half-hourly under First North Western, and continues as such today.

I remember this happening - but don't remember whether the "spare" 323s were used for another service? Or was this just FNW cutting things back to the minimum specification to save staffing costs?

Doncaster - Leeds

Stock: same (322's = more of the same really, don't they?)
Service: same
Stations: Wakefield Westgate's changed a bit, Display screens, that's it.

Added to the refurbed units mentioned above, is there not now an additional service in the peaks? The Doncaster - Adwick shorts are a relatively recent innovation too.

Plus through services (from Adwick) to Meadowhall/ Sheffield?

The 322s have also ensured four coach EMUs run "all" services on the Leeds - Adwick - Doncaster diagrams - before they arrived, this was bottom of the Neville Hill EMU pecking order, so DMUs were frequently substituted - hence the nonsense of SYPTE paying for the fourth coaches of 333s that seldom visited South Yorkshire.

Also, I think that Doncaster - Leeds has seen an increase in the "Intercity" services during the OP's timeframe - I think it was generally hourly (with extras) under GNER fifteen years ago, slowly enhanced to half hourly (with gaps).

The northern end of the line (i.e. Wakefield - Leeds) has seen improvements in the past fifteen years, with the Cross Country service improved to hourly.

I would propose Crewe to Derby for this mark of distinction. Used to be Crewe to Nottingham (or at one time Skegness,a lot further) used to be 3-car classic DMUs then 2-car, now single 153s all day unless it's Uttoxeter races on a Saturday, weekdays no spare stock available. I used to go somewhere else or take leave on those days.

I agree Derby-Crewe is another one that has gone backwards with no real prospect of improvement.

If you'd both said "Stoke to Derby then I'd have agreed (this route having also lost through services to Manchester Airport in the OP's timeframe).

However, you both mentioned Crewe - whilst it'll be of no benefit to those in Derby, the western end of the Crewe - Derby line has been electrified in the OP's timeframe, has seen services doubled (with the introduction of a through London service) and has seen capacity more than quadrupled (with four coach 350s running alongside the existing 153s.

I'm not saying that every station along the line has seen equal improvements, but I think that the massive enhancements on the western end of the "Crewe - Derby" line mean that it's done reasonably well.

 

[edwin_m]

If you'd both said "Stoke to Derby then I'd have agreed (this route having also lost through services to Manchester Airport in the OP's timeframe).

However, you both mentioned Crewe - whilst it'll be of no benefit to those in Derby, the western end of the Crewe - Derby line has been electrified in the OP's timeframe, has seen services doubled (with the introduction of a through London service) and has seen capacity more than quadrupled (with four coach 350s running alongside the existing 153s.

I'm not saying that every station along the line has seen equal improvements, but I think that the massive enhancements on the western end of the "Crewe - Derby" line mean that it's done reasonably well.

Yes good points. Stoke to Crewe has done pretty well and Stoke to Derby has deteriorated.

 

[Ianno87]

I remember this happening - but don't remember whether the "spare" 323s were used for another service? Or was this just FNW cutting things back to the minimum specification to save

No, Glossop was half-hourly off-peak at the start of the North Western Train franchise in 1996. The service continued to operate with 305s several years after the introduction of 323s in 1994, I seem to recall due to specific clearance issues on the route (although happy to be corrected on this)

A 20 minute off-peak service was introduced by NWT in November 1997 when 323s were finally introduced on the route. However, this was very short-live, lasting only as long as May 1998 as I recall. May 98 was a fairly comprehensive timetable recast (the first post-privatisation opportunity for NWT and Northern Spirit), so presumably the unit was needed elsewhere, or the 20 minute service couldn't be timetabled alongside the various other changes?

I also recally an excuse given at the time was the the 20 minute service hadn't driven up passenger numbers as much as had been hoped, so half-hourly was reverted to.

 

[Carlisle]

When electrified in 1967, the line originally had ex LU '1923 Standard' stock, i.e. tube trains from the '20s, given classes 485 & 486. The '38s (given class 483) were luxury compared to what they had replaced.

I'd never describe the 38 stock as luxury during its Island Line career ,from a passangers point of view, on introduction they boasted the truly earth shattering technology of fluorescent lights and individually controlled doors but little else other than being very slightly newer than their predecessors

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If you'd both said "Stoke to Derby then I'd have agreed (this route having also lost through services to Manchester Airport in the OP's timeframe).

However, you both mentioned Crewe - whilst it'll be of no benefit to those in Derby, the western end of the Crewe - Derby line has been electrified in the OP's timeframe, has seen services doubled (with the introduction of a through London service) and has seen capacity more than quadrupled (with four coach 350s running alongside the existing 153s.

So - again - 2030ish timeframe we could see improvements because by then Derby and Nottingham will also have been electrified with the MML scheme so makes this infill more realistic and probable. (I hope)

 

[backontrack]

Has Borderlands had anything in the way of infrastructure or timetabling improvements?

 

[Mojo]

Don't forget before the timetable change to the current 40 minutely frequency about 10 years ago, under the old hourly frequency, all Off Peak services terminated at Avonmouth. Services on to Severn Beach were peak only with a bus Off Peak.

That was a post-privatisation "innovation" though.

 

[urpert]

Bromley North to Grove Park. Never seem to be timed to connect with other services, far easier and quicker to catch a bus instead.

Not to mention still no Sunday service.

 

[Parallel]

You don't think that the Cambrian has seen improvements over the past fifteen years?

It must have one of the highest "infrastructure costs per passenger" in terms of the investment in redoubling?

The Cambrian 'mainline' has had substantial improvements, but the poster said the Cambrian Coast which has been fairly static over the years, although there is now an extra evening service to Pwllheli which (in Cambrian Coast terms) is quite a big deal, though it is the only service that doesn't schedule a call at all stations and misses out 10, a mixture of request and compulsory stops (presumably as the train has to rush to pass at Porthmadog) which has resulted in a strange calling pattern. Still an improvement for the stations it serves though.

As others have said, the Severn Beach line has received improvements over the years, having been pulled from the brink (but it needs further enhancements.) Also, during weekdays (excluding peak times), St. Andrews Road now only gets a service once every four hours.

I don't think the Heart of Wessex line has had many improvements over the years (minus summer Saturdays)

 

[krus_aragon]

Blaenau Ffestiniog has been pretty static over the years.

I thought so too, but looking at old timetables at 2d53.co.uk shows a bit more variety than I'd expected.

In 1963, the passenger service through to Blaenau was six through trains a day, but with an early morning shuttle between Dolwyddelan and Blaenau Ffestiniog, as well as four shuttles between Llandudno and Betws Y Coed in the summer season.

As recently as 1989 a second diagram was running in the summer, giving eight services additional services rather than 5 (all through to BFF). From 1990, the extra diagram was withdrawn, leaving us with today's timetable, more or less (but with one extra late service in the summer).

 

[simonw]

The Cambrian 'mainline' has had substantial improvements, but the poster said the Cambrian Coast which has been fairly static over the years, although there is now an extra evening service to Pwllheli which (in Cambrian Coast terms) is quite a big deal, though it is the only service that doesn't schedule a call at all stations and misses out 10, a mixture of request and compulsory stops (presumably as the train has to rush to pass at Porthmadog) which has resulted in a strange calling pattern. Still an improvement for the stations it serves though.

As others have said, the Severn Beach line has received improvements over the years, having been pulled from the brink (but it needs further enhancements.) Also, during weekdays (excluding peak times), St. Andrews Road now only gets a service once every four hours.

I don't think the Heart of Wessex line has had many improvements over the years (minus summer Saturdays)

Given the lack of employment and housing near st Andrews, that is not a surprise.

 

[Mojo]

Given the lack of employment and housing near st Andrews, that is not a surprise.

What are you suggesting? There is now more employment in that area than there has been at any time in the past 20 years! Indeed, there is now so enough demand to justify a bus service that goes to Avonmouth (stopping by the station) and then runs all around the industrial area serving businesses. http://severnnet.org/workareas/transport/bus-services/severnnet-flyer/

The service alterations, which only affects off peak services on weekdays were designed to allow customers to travel via Severn Beach, and were introduced because of timetabling constraints, rather than any reason such lack of demand.

 

[TheBigD]

Nuneaton-Leicester is one line where the service has deteriorated since the turn of the century, although the remaining trains are worked by more modern units. As well as the 2TPH that remain it used to have two more, providing hourly through services to Coventry, 2TPH to Nottingham and 3TPH to Birmingham.

It was only 2tph to Birmingham, save for an extra morning peak train and an afternoon Norwich-birmingham extra... 3tph in total between Leicester and Nuneaton... Only the Stansted's ran fast, the other services gave the local stops a roughly half hourly service...

Service pattern was...
Hourly Nottingham-Coventry
Hourly Stansted-Birmingham-Liverpool
Hourly Lincoln-Nottingham-Leicester-Birmingham-Shrewsbury