Leeds Station Improvement

Cuboid

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Just as they've made the toilets free in Leeds, they've now introduced charges at Bradford Interchange. Nice to see some joined up thinking-one of the benefits of the confusing maze of quangos.
Probably down to the management of the station - Network Rail (Leeds) vs Northern (Bradford). More people made a big stink over the bigger stations so NR made them free.
 
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Grumpy

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Probably down to the management of the station - Network Rail (Leeds) vs Northern (Bradford). More people made a big stink over the bigger stations so NR made them free.
I suspect the Interchange is owned by the PTE (or whatever fancy name they have these days). The toilets are also shared by the bus passengers-perhaps integrating usage of the Bradford toilets is the only bit of transport integration achieved in West Yorks in the past 40 years.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I suspect the Interchange is owned by the PTE (or whatever fancy name they have these days). The toilets are also shared by the bus passengers-perhaps integrating usage of the Bradford toilets is the only bit of transport integration achieved in West Yorks in the past 40 years.
That's correct: the toilets at Bradford Interchange are in the undercroft between the railway station and the bus station, so controlled by Metro. The toilets at Huddersfield bus station have also become chargeable in the last few months, both Huddersfield and Bradford ones were previously magnets for anti-social behaviour and drug use.
 

Cuboid

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I suppose that's the downside of making them free to use - you'll always attract some form of unsavoury use which in turn costs money to monitor and/or repair damage.
 

Andyh82

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Just as they've made the toilets free in Leeds, they've now introduced charges at Bradford Interchange. Nice to see some joined up thinking-one of the benefits of the confusing maze of quangos.
No need for this rant, the toilets at Bradford Interchange are quite obviously not in the train station and hence the two changes are completely unrelated.
 

Grumpy

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No need for this rant, the toilets at Bradford Interchange are quite obviously not in the train station and hence the two changes are completely unrelated.
Nonsense. The toilets are in the combined train/bus station and are controlled by Metro which is the transport arm of the West Yorkshire Combined authority. Between them they hold the responsibility for championing the integration and development of public transport in West Yorkshire. Apart from running bus stations they financially support unremunerative bus services as well as subsidising local train services in West Yorkshire. I suspect the local train services needing support are all those using the Interchange as well as the Northern services at Leeds-which are probably at least half the services. So they have financial clout which they should be using to ensure a uniform product for travellers in their area.
 

takno

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That's correct: the toilets at Bradford Interchange are in the undercroft between the railway station and the bus station, so controlled by Metro. The toilets at Huddersfield bus station have also become chargeable in the last few months, both Huddersfield and Bradford ones were previously magnets for anti-social behaviour and drug use.
Daylight robbery from people who just need to perform a basic human function is antisocial behaviour on a massive scale in my book. Antisocial behaviour and drug use is always trotted out but with very little evidence that it is actually more of a problem than the charges that are supposed to magically solve it somehow
 

Eric

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Daylight robbery from people who just need to perform a basic human function is antisocial behaviour on a massive scale in my book. Antisocial behaviour and drug use is always trotted out but with very little evidence that it is actually more of a problem than the charges that are supposed to magically solve it somehow
The one's at Bradford are free to oap you just have to go into the station mangers office opposite and they put the pin in and let you in.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Daylight robbery from people who just need to perform a basic human function is antisocial behaviour on a massive scale in my book. Antisocial behaviour and drug use is always trotted out but with very little evidence that it is actually more of a problem than the charges that are supposed to magically solve it somehow
Though in most cases, charging does seem to significantly reduce both anti-social behaviour and vandalism. There are exceptions of course, which (to bring us back on topic) includes the Leeds City station toilets which always looked like they'd been trashed by Viking hordes even when they were chargeable.

I agree it isn't black and white, Huddersfield and Wakefield Westgate (both old and new) toilets have always been free and whilst not the lap of luxury are perfectly acceptable and generally not a hostile environment.
 

takno

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The one's at Bradford are free to oap you just have to go into the station mangers office opposite and they put the pin in and let you in.
I'm not at OAP for another 20 years or so yet. I really don't think I'll be able to hold it in that long!
 

johntea

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What are they doing to the area outside the station with the (ex) cycling shop place and taxi rank? It has been closed off around a week now and the taxi rank has been shoved up a bit near Queen's Hotel!
 

Sceptre

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What are they doing to the area outside the station with the (ex) cycling shop place and taxi rank? It has been closed off around a week now and the taxi rank has been shoved up a bit near Queen's Hotel!
It's part of the Northern entrance rebuild. Should be done by Christmas, with the current roof and entrance replaced with plate glass.
 

Spod

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I wonder what transparent material they'll actually use? Hopefully something safer and more resilient than plate glass!
I also wonder if this new roof will be replaced when the station is rebuilt for HS2, or if they'll try to incorporate it into the design.
 

jmh59

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What are they doing to the area outside the station with the (ex) cycling shop place and taxi rank? It has been closed off around a week now and the taxi rank has been shoved up a bit near Queen's Hotel!
So taxis still queue up sort-of where they used to? We'll be arriving into Leeds in a few days and probably not in the mood to go hunting!
 

ashkeba

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Though in most cases, charging does seem to significantly reduce both anti-social behaviour and vandalism. There are exceptions of course, which (to bring us back on topic) includes the Leeds City station toilets which always looked like they'd been trashed by Viking hordes even when they were chargeable.

I agree it isn't black and white, Huddersfield and Wakefield Westgate (both old and new) toilets have always been free and whilst not the lap of luxury are perfectly acceptable and generally not a hostile environment.
Any proof charging reduces vandalism? Don't vandals just jump the barrier?

And is it really OK to make OAPs beg humiliatingly to get free access to toilets?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Any proof charging reduces vandalism? Don't vandals just jump the barrier?

And is it really OK to make OAPs beg humiliatingly to get free access to toilets?
If you'd bothered to read the whole text of the post you'd quoted, you'd know that I wasn't making either of the statements you accuse me of making. :rolleyes:
 

ashkeba

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If you'd bothered to read the whole text of the post you'd quoted, you'd know that I wasn't making either of the statements you accuse me of making. :rolleyes:
And if you'd bothered to read the post you'd quoted, you'd notice that both questions were general open questions to anyone who would like to answer them and not "accusing" you of anything. :rolleyes:

Although "charging does seem to significantly reduce both anti-social behaviour and vandalism" does sound a bit like a claim that charging reduces vandalism, doesn't it? I guess that's why I hit reply on your post.
 

61653 HTAFC

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And if you'd bothered to read the post you'd quoted, you'd notice that both questions were general open questions to anyone who would like to answer them and not "accusing" you of anything. :rolleyes:

Although "charging does seem to significantly reduce both anti-social behaviour and vandalism" does sound a bit like a claim that charging reduces vandalism, doesn't it? I guess that's why I hit reply on your post.
Apologies if my post seemed a bit reactionary, tone doesn't always translate well in text. I do however object to accusations of persecuting the elderly. Anyway...

Charging for the use of toilets often does reduce vandalism and anti-social behaviour. The old toilets at Manchester Piccadilly were hellish, as were the ones in the subway at Leeds. As I said in the post you quoted initially, charging isn't a "magic bullet":
Although the facilities at Piccadilly improved exponentially after the refurbishment, the situation at Leeds didn't. The replacement facilities on the concourse are too small and the ones on the platform 12-15 island got little more than a lick of paint. The chargeable ones stayed in reasonable (if cramped) order for a few years before falling into disrepair, perhaps the vandals in Leeds have more disposable income than their Mancunian counterparts.

Hopefully, better facilities will be provided at Leeds once the work is completed... and hopefully the ne'er-do-wells can be kept at bay!
 

Bantamzen

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Passing through this morning I noticed that part of the new gateline has now been revealed where the coffee shop used to be. I'll try and get a photo on my way back tonight, but it might not be too much longer before these will come into use, presumably to allow the remaining ones across the entrance to be installed.
 

johntea

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I spotted quite a few wrapped up barriers in the opened bit, wonder if they'll be chucking out the old barriers and replacing them with the same model as the Southern side (not sure the lifetime of the kit but the current ones are roughly 10 years old now!)
 

NorthernSpirit

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I'm sure the old barriers will be upcycled and used elsewhere on the Northern network. I suppose staffing and installing barriers at Burley Park, Headingley and Horsforth could held alleviate the problems encounted at Leeds as one would need to be in possesion of a ticket to access the platforms, the other thing is it would prevent clogging around the barriers at Leeds no matter how wide the things go.
 

Bantamzen

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View attachment 64591

Went to Smiths on my lunch today and managed to get a shot, very much looking forward to seeing it completed.
This section is open this morning, albeit with the new barriers still covered and the old ones still being used for the ticket checks. Part of the previous approach from the concourse has also been blocked off, presumably to allow for the new barriers alongside these to be installed.
 

Halifaxlad

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Surprised to see them open this morning. I can't help but wonder if a number of them should be kept open through the peaks on a regular basis ?
 

Bantamzen

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Surprised to see them open this morning. I can't help but wonder if a number of them should be kept open through the peaks on a regular basis ?
The existing barriers were still being operated, its just that they opened up that area with the new ones as they've cordoned off another part of the concourse to start installing more new ones.
 

Halifaxlad

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The existing barriers were still being operated, its just that they opened up that area with the new ones as they've cordoned off another part of the concourse to start installing more new ones.
When I go they're, they were using the new ones to let folk out !
 

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