Leeds Station Improvement

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Leedslad_, 8 Oct 2018.

  1. asharpe

    asharpe Member

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    I've been more aware in the past few weeks of effluent on the tracks in the bay platforms.

    I wonder if the prevalence of trains with CET makes people less aware of what happens when your flush in an older train. I'm sure I'm seeing more Pacers down there than I would a few month ago.
     
  2. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    It's quite bad on platform 17 along with all kinds of other assorted litter and detritus.
     
  3. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    Now they've made the concourse toilets free, they're closing them down to refurbish them! (Presumably to get rid of the gating etc and open it up a bit)
     
  4. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    I’m not sure too many are aware of the differences, usually either not wanting to flush in platforms full stop or out of habit, or not caring in the first place.
     
  5. bengley

    bengley Established Member

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    The gates have been gone since the day it became free. The toilets are old and tired, they will be refurbishing them properly I'd imagine.
     
  6. Cuboid

    Cuboid Member

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    Is it just the concourse loo's being closed for refurb? Probably in relation to the main concourse refurb as well. Pointless spending money on that if they aren't going to refurb the loo's too.
     
  7. spionkop64

    spionkop64 Member

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    One issue with Leeds station is that the WY rail network, particularly since the 1980s, has been developed with Leeds as its hub. Meaning that virtually any journey has to be via Leeds. There might be potential for one train an hour between York and Huddersfield (and v.v.) running via Church Fenton, Castleford, etc. If the Crigglestone curve reopened a Bradford-Sheffield would become a possibility.
    Similarly, Huddersfield-Stockport (perhaps onto Crewe) could help ease pressure on Man Picc.
    We're reaching a situation where Leeds station will become (or indeed has become) saturated. Yet many passengers never leave the station, so rather than thinking more and more platforms, should long term thinking be focussed elsewhere?
     
  8. Cuboid

    Cuboid Member

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    Yep, would be nice if traffic could be alleviated away & out of Leeds.

    Merging or somehow connecting both Bradford stations would be a good one as well. Would make it easier to have through trains from Skipton/Ilkley down towards Huddersfield that way. Plus re-open various disused lines to do bypasses.

    Hopefully should we see something from NPR before the 22nd century then a re-think of some of the lines around here would be good
     
  9. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    If the bridge added at the last rebuild had better access to the island platforms (would require escalators and stairs either side on the 9-11 island due to it being so narrow) and wasn't cluttered with shops, Leeds would be a much nicer place to interchange. Actually rebuilding the Eastern footbridge into something suitable for the volumes it handles would be a big help too.
     
  10. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    If, and its still an if at this stage, HS2 reaches Leeds then its likely that alongside the new HS alignment down the South Bank, the station could be remodelled to increase capacity from both legacy directions. However that is still a very long time away. It would be nice to think there would be some way of having services not being dependant on entering Leeds, the network is what it is. Projects to bypass it are not on the board, and are unlikely to ever be so.

    Uh oh, be careful here. There are some members that literally bristle with rage whenever anyone mentions a Bradford Crossrail, even when its talked about in the context of the proposed new Trans-Pennine alignment.... ;)

    Getting back on topic, I noticed yesterday that ground had been broken in the car park along the alignment of P0, and some brickwork has been put down right at the western end of the site.
     
  11. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    Nggggh!......trying.... to stop..... the.....bristling....ggrrr....too late.... bristle RaaaaRRR!! bristle bristle!!!

    Why would you want to put NPR on a north-south alignment through Bradford when the line runs east-west?

    Where would it go now that its route has been built on?

    The latest local metro plan includes an option for tram (or tram-train?) operation on the Leeds-Pudsey-Bradford route, presumably moving long distance services on to NPR. If that's happening, I could see a good case to have a street-running tram route through Bradford then running up to Shipley using the old four track alignment. I think that's the best Bradford Crossrail option.
     
  12. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    The initial concept was that the line would be below ground level through Bradford, indeed some renders suggest an east-west alignment. And yes, I know that's hugely costly, well until at least until you consider that NPR will require a lot of tunnelling to get through some difficult Pennine topography then it pales somewhat. But for what's it worth I don't see NPR ever happening.

    Now I'm bristling... ;)

    But seriously, the city gets offered a high speed link to it's major city neighbours, to a glorified trolley bus system. Politically that won't go down well, but its also not very practical when the TOC using the Leeds-Pudsey-Bradford alignment won't allow for the kind of tram capacity because they are running regular commuter & regional service across it. Plus Leeds has tried & tried to get a light rail system and consistently failed, so there's a strong chance a tram-train system won't get through I'm afraid.
     
  13. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    A tram-train based Bradford 'stadtbahn' could also incorporate Huddersfield locals via Halifax and a reopened Spen Valley to Dewsbury.
     
  14. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    A well designed tram-train system need go no slower than the MU vehicles it replaces on the heavy rail parts of the system, and might actually have better acceleration performance, and operate in formations of up to 100m long, as proposed for Cardiff. New street sections in Bradford could be kept as segregated as possible, ideally not sharing any lane-space with significant flows of general traffic except at crossings on the level, where tram priority would apply to signalisation, and even only sharing road space with buses where absolutely necessary, while being able to exploit the curve and gradient handling capabilities of light rail technology to create a cost effective route with minimal disruption and property acquisition. It could work post-NPR on the Pudsey corridor because other limited stop services would have been removed or reduced, hence creating path space for a more frequent stopping service. Cost effective electrification, Cardiff style might be applied that could also be exploited by remaining heavy rail services using multi-mode units like the South Wales FLIRTs, and using tram-trains could give opportunity for a Leeds street extension that could eventually be incorporated in a wider Leeds tram network.
     
  15. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    I'm not quite sure what you mean, but this is the outline plan:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    I see they're still persisting with the White Rose Centre station on the Huddersfield line, despite that line already being full... :rolleyes:
     
  17. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    I imagine that Cottingley would shut once it's open.
     
  18. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    This is often suggested, but I can't see it happening due to all the new houses that have been built right next door to Cottingley station. The map doesn't indicate that WRC would be a replacement for either Cottingley or Morley (for me Morley would be the one to close, due to its poor location).

    A tram line would be a better way of serving WRC and the surrounding businesses, providing it was segregated from road traffic wherever possible. Using the old Holbeck viaduct and parts of the Farnley line would allow this, with stops at Elland Road and White Rose on a line to Morley town centre.
     
  19. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    WR station will be just the other side of Elland Road, so 600m away from the current Cottingley station. Looking at the housing nearby, it will be less convenient for some, but more convenient for others. Either way, it's a relatively minor change. By contrast WR station would be over 2km from Morley station. If the current Morley station is inconveniently located for Morley, how much more inconvenient would WR be?

    Well that's the trick, isn't it? I don't follow the logic. We already have a segregated public transport route running right by the site, but you think it makes more sense to build something on a new alignment, at what cost? Bear in mind the new station cost will be in the order of £10-20m. You won't get the first metre of tram line built for that.
     
  20. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Until NPR happens, using the Pudsey line simply isn't an option. And NPR isn't going to happen, heck HS2b still isn't a certainty yet.

    There has been talk of a Leeds / West Yorkshire transit system of one kind or another for as long as I can remember. None have ever made it very far, certainly nowhere near any planning or financial stage. So I won't be holding my breath for this one, its just Advanced Crayolista right now. I currently would settle for full TP wiring and four tracking, and even that's looking ambitious right now.
     
  21. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    Isn’t the track geometry non-compliant with current new station standards too, and only likely to get worse if there are any efforts to speed up the curve?

    I believe it’s simply a fop to the White Rose Centre as it lies within what Leeds City Council wants to be a general clean air/congestion charge zone, which will surely follow the commercial vehicle Clean Air Zone if it’s not a total disaster. Notably the initial plans were to use the M62 as the rough southern boundary rather than the M621 as it will now do. “We build a new station, you don’t kick up a fuss if we start charging motorists or deliveries to visit, ok?”

    Anyway, I think that’s something for another thread, rather than one about Leeds station.
     
  22. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    You have 3 big locations on that route that are big selling points for any mass rapid transit system Elland Road, Park & Ride and WRC to get it off the ground to help build a strong case.
     
  23. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    Contrary to popular opinion, new platforms ARE allowed on curves and gradients, but there are limits, and these are more onerous where trains are planned to reverse, which is not the case with this potential station. A cursory look suggests the limits are not exceeded in this case, although care will be required to ensure stepping distance limits are not exceeded. Modern stock, especially the kind of light rail based tram-train vehicles produced by Stadler and CAF, include moving gap filler steps at doorways that can help overcome this problem.
    Look what I produced some five years ago: http://www.townend.me/files/dewsbury.pdf
     
  24. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    If that's the planned location, it isn't that close to the centre it takes the name of.

    The reason I object to a WRC station is that the conveniently adjacent rail line is full. Local services are subject to delays and cancellations at short notice due to the high frequency of quasi-InterCity services which themselves are frequently overcrowded.

    Leeds is apparently the largest city in the EU (for now...) without a metro/tram/light-rail system. It deserves one and needs one. See my response to @AndyHudds below.

    Leeds City Council were given money for public transport that had previously been allocated to the shelved trolleybus scheme. I think it's a case of "use it or lose it" and White Rose is as you say a convenient sop.

    As you say I've gone off-topic, I hadn't intended such a diversion! This will be my last post on this subject.

    Precisely. Leeds needs a fixed, permanent solution to congestion and a well-designed tram/light-rail system would go a long way. It needs to go to the right places and WRC via Elland Road would be an obvious route option. So it's silly to spend £20m (which is probably an optimistic estimate given the capacity improvements required) on a station that will either become redundant, or more likely destroy any business case for light-rail.

    Back to Leeds station improvements, any light-rail system would possibly be able to serve as a link between the HS2 platforms and the existing station for those who might struggle with the walk.

    EDIT: I've created a thread in the Speculative Ideas section for discussion of a Leeds tramway.
     
    Last edited: 25 Apr 2019
  25. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    I thought the bufferstops for the new terminal will be closer to the existing station than originally proposed, although I accept the front of a train could be a further quarter mile away, in which case perhaps moving walkways along the platforms might be justified.
     
  26. Glenn1969

    Glenn1969 Member

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    This map is an unfunded wish list for how to take advantage of and connect the wider area out of HS2 and NPR when they arrive at Leeds station and Bradford
     
  27. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    At this stage, how could it be anything else? Early concepts are by their very nature tentative, unfunded and dependent on other developments.
     
  28. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    Update regarding the loos refurbishment, they’ve stuck some portaloos up outside :D
     
  29. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    It looks like they may have knocked through Upper Crust now ready for extending the ticket barrier area, also the long stay car park is closed from next Tuesday (8 May)
     
  30. Grumpy

    Grumpy Member

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    Just as they've made the toilets free in Leeds, they've now introduced charges at Bradford Interchange. Nice to see some joined up thinking-one of the benefits of the confusing maze of quangos.
     

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