Leeds station to be ticket holders only midnight - 5:30am

[Iskra]

Would you like to persuade hundreds of drunk football fans to use ticket barriers?

Thought not.

At that point, if the member of staff in question let them all through the wide aisle gate, it may be a question of safety, not only for that member of staff, but for the drunks on the station.

Well what's the point in having them if they don't both challenging ticketless people?

It wasn't a safety issue, or they'd have opened all the barriers not just stood holding their plastic card to open the wide aisle gate for everyone.

 

[Spartacus]

What an utterly moronic statement, what does the facilities mean in contrast to this? I've seen just as many drunk unsociable people in Piccadilly as I've seen in Leeds, many London stations and other large stations all over the country.

Any ways from the horses mouth (a member of BTP) the reason behind this trial is to avert anti social behaviour and drunks. The issues with Leeds station is the large taxi rank outside which is one of the main routes home for people out on the town. As anyone that's actually travelled through Leeds station in the early hours you'll find a lot of people who are refused passage in taxis due to being too intoxicated, they thought it was acceptable to sleep it off in the station (and before anyone says drunks are present in all cities). This lead to other issues arising which homeless thinking it was ok to sleep on the concourse, theft from passed out revellers, and other issues arising to it. This was taking up too much time for the police in dealing with this so in the light of it all decided to shut the station.

Unfortunately it's a sad state of affairs when a minority spoil it for everyone but because of budgets it's simply to viable to operate it as once before. I believe also due to the surrounding area of Leeds station being BTPs "beat" and there being many busy latenight thoroughfares they also have to patrol these and couldn't give their full service to the concourse.

Do you know what the arrangements are for those needing to buy a ticket?

 

[Starmill]

What an utterly moronic statement, what does the facilities mean in contrast to this? I've seen just as many drunk unsociable people in Piccadilly as I've seen in Leeds, many London stations and other large stations all over the country.

Not particularly. It doesn't really relate to the actual users of the station. If things are clean, tidy and colourful, and in particular warm and welcoming then they're less likely to be misused. Leeds has very old outdated fittings and is in places including the roof, floor and tracks absolutely filthy. It doesn't have an softening features such as plants and has only recently gained some colour which doesn't really' work' with the rest of the station. It's not a nice station to use or a nice place to spend time particularly. I can easily believe that that's part of why it's not treated with respect.

 

[DarloRich]

Most unfortunately, it can be something far more serious than anti-social behaviour to be guarded against in this day and age when international terrorism is something that knows no boundaries.

I know the recent incident at the Manchester United football ground was thankfully not a real device (it actually was made to look so by the private security group who were involved with the testing of the dog search and patrol teams at that ground). but a timed explosion from a device that had been planted hours earlier when large numbers are expected on that large railway station could be horrific if it occurred.

agreed - however it is not 1986 and the terrorist threat has changed from one of packages left allowing the perpetrators to escape to large scale indiscriminate suicide bombing and gun attacks.

You don't do those at 3am.

If you had a platform ticket wouldn't they let you wait in the station building?

i don't understand why you would want to wait in the station building. Why not just go home?
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Without direct experience of Leeds station quite so late what follows is speculation on my part but I wonder if the measure is an attempt to deal with criminal activities such as drug dealing or solicitation? It could be that BTP feels under-resourced to deal with a particular issue at present and this may be a somewhat cynical move to try and push problems off their patch and onto that of the local constabulary. Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happens elsewhere in due course.

you don't do drug deals in an environment bristling with cctv equipment monitored 24 hours a day.

It is clearly to deter anti social behaviour/drunken accidents which i bet isn't helped by having the main taxi rank for the city outside and things like McDonalds inside and everyone loves a McDonalds after a few pints!

 

[greaterwest]

Well what's the point in having them if they don't both challenging ticketless people?

It wasn't a safety issue, or they'd have opened all the barriers not just stood holding their plastic card to open the wide aisle gate for everyone.

Ticketless drunks are much more difficult to deal with.

If I were in that situation, I'd rather them be off the station, than challenge them over a ticket from, most likely, a local unmanned station.

As for opening the wide aisle gate only, if "get them out as quickly as possible" was his reason for letting them through (this is only speculation!) then I don't know why he didn't open the rest, other than the fact that he has no direct access to the control unit.

 

[Iskra]

Ticketless drunks are much more difficult to deal with.

If I were in that situation, I'd rather them be off the station, than challenge them over a ticket from, most likely, a local unmanned station.

As for opening the wide aisle gate only, if "get them out as quickly as possible" was his reason for letting them through (this is only speculation!) then I don't know why he didn't open the rest, other than the fact that he has no direct access to the control unit.

So, difficult people are allowed through without a ticket yet people who are compliant get the book thrown at them. That hardly encourages people to be compliant.

This was a train from London Kings Cross (barriers open), where all the intermediate stations are gated. At 00:30, there aren't many trains arriving at Leeds from local unmanned stations, mainly VTEC and TPE long distance services.

 

[Andyh82]

Not sure why everyone here is outraged at this closure effecting their human rights and wanting to get around it by buying platform tickets or demanding to pick tickets up from a machine at 3 in the morning.

I would guess the majority of the people in the station overnight are not catching the half a dozen trains that run overnight, but are using the station as a place to sit down in the warm and have a McDonald's. That shouldn't be the responsibility of the railway so I can understand why they'd close the station.

You'd only complain if you were travelling early the next morning and had to step over all kinds of rubbish and bodily fluids due to the concourse being used as a club after party all night.

 

[DarloRich]

I have been at Leeds several times at silly o'clock ( once or twice after a couple of pints) and it doesn't seem that bad and looked well managed. Things must have gone down hill rapidly for the place to be shut up.

 

[theblackwatch]

I have been at Leeds several times at silly o'clock ( once or twice after a couple of pints) and it doesn't seem that bad and looked well managed. Things must have gone down hill rapidly for the place to be shut up.

I presume you haven't been on an early morning when Leeds Festival has taken place? I came out of the Queen's Hotel at 05.xx and had to dodge the great unwashed (and yes, they definitely were!) who had spent the night sleeping on the floor on the station concourse waiting for their train home. Admittedly, that event is only 3 days a year though - I wonder what all those people will do in 2016!

 

[greaterwest]

So, difficult people are allowed through without a ticket yet people who are compliant get the book thrown at them. That hardly encourages people to be compliant.

This was a train from London Kings Cross (barriers open), where all the intermediate stations are gated. At 00:30, there aren't many trains arriving at Leeds from local unmanned stations, mainly VTEC and TPE long distance services.

Well I'm not sure then, but difficult people =/= difficult drunken people. I don't even think revenue protection would be much use at that point, though I don't know. Difficult people can be persuaded in most cases, to buy the correct ticket.

People who are compliant don't get the book thrown at them, because they're being compliant (redundant statement in the first place!) and most people would be challenged on their journey BEFORE LEAVING the station.

As for entering, gateline staff will not let ticketless people onto the station unless they feel their personal safety is in jeopardy (in which case, BTP would be informed)

What would you do in that situation; potentially ticketless drunks that need to leave the station?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

agreed - however it is not 1986 and the terrorist threat has changed from one of packages left allowing the perpetrators to escape to large scale indiscriminate suicide bombing and gun attacks.

You don't do those at 3am.

My posting was attempting to show the possibility of the said bomb package being placed by a terrorist in what they hoped was an unseen location during the night-time hours on that station, such as the 3am you mention, with the bomb timed to explode during the latter Monday to Friday morning peak period when it could do the most harm.

When the IRA planted their bomb that exploded on 12th October 1984 at the Grand Hotel at Brighton, where many politicians and delegates attending the Conservative Party Conference were staying, that bomb was planted in advance with a timer to ensure the explosion would take place at a later time.

 

[Clip]

My posting was attempting to show the possibility of the said bomb package being placed by a terrorist in what they hoped was an unseen location during the night-time hours on that station, such as the 3am you mention, with the bomb timed to explode during the latter Monday to Friday morning peak period when it could do the most harm.

When the IRA planted their bomb that exploded on 12th October 1984 at the Grand Hotel at Brighton, where many politicians and delegates attending the Conservative Party Conference were staying, that bomb was planted in advance with a timer to ensure the explosion would take place at a later time.

And Darlorich was right to point out that it would be found.
Network Rail policy at Major stations is to have a full security sweep of the station every hour with dedicated check points to log that certain parts of the station has been checked which should include walking to the end of each platform and so on and so forth, even when the station is closed to passengers and I dont think this policy has changed since I left NR in 2007.

If theyve left something then it will get found or the staff are not doing their job correctly.

 

[DarloRich]

My posting was attempting to show the possibility of the said bomb package being placed by a terrorist in what they hoped was an unseen location during the night-time hours on that station, such as the 3am you mention, with the bomb timed to explode during the latter Monday to Friday morning peak period when it could do the most harm.

When the IRA planted their bomb that exploded on 12th October 1984 at the Grand Hotel at Brighton, where many politicians and delegates attending the Conservative Party Conference were staying, that bomb was planted in advance with a timer to ensure the explosion would take place at a later time.

i agree - however threats of the nature of an IRA bombing campaign are reduced and replaced by threats of an IS based nature. They don't leave bombs in a bin or under a seat timed to explode later.
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I presume you haven't been on an early morning when Leeds Festival has taken place? I came out of the Queen's Hotel at 05.xx and had to dodge the great unwashed (and yes, they definitely were!) who had spent the night sleeping on the floor on the station concourse waiting for their train home. Admittedly, that event is only 3 days a year though - I wonder what all those people will do in 2016!

It is a while since I went to Leeds festival. I assume they will have to go somewhere else! Leeds doesn't have a central park does it?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As someone who even when intoxicated is not the sort to become aggressive, I've on previous occasions in my youth "napped" on station concourses (Manchester Piccadilly, Leeds and Bristol Temple Meads for example) and not been an inconvenience of any significance to either the railway or my fellow passengers. However, the fact that a lot of people are unable to control themselves in such a situation is unfortunately a fact of life. This rule being brought in might well inconvenience me in future (it very nearly did on Sunday night) but on occasion sacrifices have to be made. Whether discarding vulnerable people onto the streets of Leeds has any unforseen side effects though, only time will tell.

 

[Mikey C]

I presume you haven't been on an early morning when Leeds Festival has taken place? I came out of the Queen's Hotel at 05.xx and had to dodge the great unwashed (and yes, they definitely were!) who had spent the night sleeping on the floor on the station concourse waiting for their train home. Admittedly, that event is only 3 days a year though - I wonder what all those people will do in 2016!

Maybe homeless people in general sleeping in Leeds station was an issue?

I've only been in Leeds station once after midnight, a couple of years ago, and it didn't seem that bad, maybe it gets worse when people leave the clubs?

 

[yorksrob]

Does anybody know if metrocard holders will be allowed in before 5:30 ?