Leeds Station: What further improvements would you like to see?

[YorksLad12]

There's possibly space in the Marsh Lane area, or in the cutting between there and Neville Hill. Still wouldn't solve the capacity issue, but problems like this require a little bit of give and take to solve. It's quite possible that the requirement for more capacity on the Nottingham route could outweigh the need for operational flexibility to the East of Leeds Station.

I’d wondered if something couldn’t be built west of the station. There’s Holbeck Sidings, and the one near the motorway at Dewsbury Road, but you’d need something roughly near Holbeck Triangle for the lower-numbered platforms, such as around Globe Road/Whitehall Road.

East Leeds Parkway was supposed to solve the problem, but was never built. Re-opening Marsh Lane with two platforms and two fast lines would allow you park trains up for a while too, but is even less likely than the parkway station.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I’d wondered if something couldn’t be built west of the station. There’s Holbeck Sidings, and the one near the motorway at Dewsbury Road, but you’d need something roughly near Holbeck Triangle for the lower-numbered platforms, such as around Globe Road/Whitehall Road.

East Leeds Parkway was supposed to solve the problem, but was never built. Re-opening Marsh Lane with two platforms and two fast lines would allow you park trains up for a while too, but is even less likely than the parkway station.

I don't think reopening Marsh Lane as a station is a goer to be honest, though I'd like to see Thorpe Park (if it happens) maybe get expanded into an alternative version of East Leeds Parkway, perhaps with a turnback road or two.

West of the station isn't where the capacity constraint is, so adding additional sidings there won't solve the problem. You could rejig the timetable for the Hallam line so that platform 17 didn't require "stacking", but that would cause further problems all the way to the notoriously constrained northern approaches to Sheffield. Whilst the current arrangements limit train lengths, they do work well operationally with the way the timetable on that route operates.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Platform 16 gets pretty hectic if the Trans-Pennine route goes up the spout. It's a shame the bridge isn't a fair bit wider, as if it was a Piccadilly-style system could be implemented which would vastly improve things in that part of the station. It also doesn't help that the access to P17 (which itself serves the busy semi-fasts to Sheffield and beyond) is via the narrow and crowded P16.

In terms of speculative ideas for the footbridge, it would be great if it extended further over to platforms 0-6 with steps heading away from the trainshed and onto the platforms. Having to come in on 1 and go almost all the way to the gateline to swing round and up onto the bridge to get to platform 16 was quite irritating when I used to do that.

Instead could come in to 2A, straight up the stairs and be out of everyone's way rather than fighting through everyone milling about waiting for the London train to start boarding.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In terms of speculative ideas for the footbridge, it would be great if it extended further over to platforms 0-6 with steps heading away from the trainshed and onto the platforms. Having to come in on 1 and go almost all the way to the gateline to swing round and up onto the bridge to get to platform 16 was quite irritating when I used to do that.

Instead could come in to 2A, straight up the stairs and be out of everyone's way rather than fighting through everyone milling about waiting for the London train to start boarding.

Agreed, as it gets very congested at the bottom of the escalators. It has improved since they moved the gateline back to where the old manned gates were before the refurbishment, rather than where the barriers were initially installed.

If it were up to me and the magic money tree, I'd remove all the unnecessary stuff from the bridge including the food kiosks and information desk to allow more circulation space. I'd also install a second staircase and escalator to each platform on the west side of the bridge, as this would avoid the scrummage that happens at the top of every staircase. A strictly enforced lane system on the bridge would help too, and would be aided by each platform island having a second set of stairs and escalators.

 

[Kingston Dan]

Having just come back from there earlier today I'd say getting rid of all the diesel engines would be a start!

 

[YorksLad12]

In terms of speculative ideas for the footbridge, it would be great if it extended further over to platforms 0-6 with steps heading away from the trainshed and onto the platforms. Having to come in on 1 and go almost all the way to the gateline to swing round and up onto the bridge to get to platform 16 was quite irritating when I used to do that.

Instead could come in to 2A, straight up the stairs and be out of everyone's way rather than fighting through everyone milling about waiting for the London train to start boarding.

I don't think there's room on the platforms for escalator up, stairs down and lifts. There's barely enough room for people disgorging in the morning peak.

(No LNER massive for me this morning, there being no LNER trains. But as I approached the eastern footbridge, the hoards came down the up flight of steps. I just kept hitting the ones who didn't move out of my way fast enough with my laptop bag while running for the 0911 on P12.)

Agreed, as it gets very congested at the bottom of the escalators. It has improved since they moved the gateline back to where the old manned gates were before the refurbishment, rather than where the barriers were initially installed.

If it were up to me and the magic money tree, I'd remove all the unnecessary stuff from the bridge including the food kiosks and information desk to allow more circulation space. I'd also install a second staircase and escalator to each platform on the west side of the bridge, as this would avoid the scrummage that happens at the top of every staircase. A strictly enforced lane system on the bridge would help too, and would be aided by each platform island having a second set of stairs and escalators.

Again, not enough space for a second set - think of how P15 narrows (at both ends). I think to widen the footbridge you'd have to straddle the river; it seems to stop just short at the moment (so also depends on where the arches are). What kind of lane system were you thinking of?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Again, not enough space for a second set - think of how P15 narrows (at both ends). I think to widen the footbridge you'd have to straddle the river; it seems to stop just short at the moment (so also depends on where the arches are). What kind of lane system were you thinking of?

For a "lane system" (which might not have been the best terminology) I was thinking that with the footbridge cleared of all the unnecessary stuff you could arrange it so that one side of the footbridge is used for people heading towards P16 and the other side for people heading the other way. Though for this to work, you would need a second set of stairs and escalators to each platform... and of course even if you could find space for them, they'd be beyond the overall roof so each one would need some sort of canopy.

Perhaps a more workable solution to congestion on the bridge, would be to replace the Eastern footbridge with something much more substantial, more in keeping with the Western footbridge. It always surprised me that the Eastern bridge was left untouched (other than the additional span to P16) during the refurbishment.

 

[YorksLad12]

For a "lane system" (which might not have been the best terminology) I was thinking that with the footbridge cleared of all the unnecessary stuff you could arrange it so that one side of the footbridge is used for people heading towards P16 and the other side for people heading the other way. Though for this to work, you would need a second set of stairs and escalators to each platform... and of course even if you could find space for them, they'd be beyond the overall roof so each one would need some sort of canopy.

Perhaps a more workable solution to congestion on the bridge, would be to replace the Eastern footbridge with something much more substantial, more in keeping with the Western footbridge. It always surprised me that the Eastern bridge was left untouched (other than the additional span to P16) during the refurbishment.

Lifts at the eastern end would be a Godsend when TPE airport and XC services call at that end. Faster lifts on the western end would be nice as well, I think that's one reason people avoid them (plus, they see the escalators first). Sadly, the "unnecessary stuff" pays rent, which helps pay for the Southern Entrance overspend from 2015/16.

I did have a mad idea for the western footbridge... narrow the escalators. Make it harder for people to walk up them, especially as people generally ignore the signs saying "no luggage" which means it's difficult to get past the suitcases with bodies in them. Then, add an equally narrow up escalator where the stairs would be. Then have the steps in the middle, but pushing further into the platform, so that they are higher than the escalators. Then they could split into a Y-shape, the reverse of what they do at Sheffield (but with escalators). Or, just have a staircase between the two narrower escalators.

There are two issues with this (apart from the cost and disruption); you'd get very close to the overhead lines, and the pillars holding up the roof get in the way. This is why I don't do engineering.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Lifts at the eastern end would be a Godsend when TPE airport and XC services call at that end. Faster lifts on the western end would be nice as well, I think that's one reason people avoid them (plus, they see the escalators first). Sadly, the "unnecessary stuff" pays rent, which helps pay for the Southern Entrance overspend from 2015/16.

I did have a mad idea for the western footbridge... narrow the escalators. Make it harder for people to walk up them, especially as people generally ignore the signs saying "no luggage" which means it's difficult to get past the suitcases with bodies in them. Then, add an equally narrow up escalator where the stairs would be. Then have the steps in the middle, but pushing further into the platform, so that they are higher than the escalators. Then they could split into a Y-shape, the reverse of what they do at Sheffield (but with escalators). Or, just have a staircase between the two narrower escalators.

There are two issues with this (apart from the cost and disruption); you'd get very close to the overhead lines, and the pillars holding up the roof get in the way. This is why I don't do engineering.

I doubt you'd get away with additional escalators even if they were narrower. The existing ones to the platforms are already 'up' only, with the stairs being used for those descending. The luggage on escalators problem could be solved with the 'blocker fences' (not sure what they're really called) like those fitted at the bottom of the escalators up from the gateline, but again the narrow platforms might mean that can't be done.

I'm sure the revenue from the food outlets on the bridge is important, but these could be relocated elsewhere. More could be made of the outlet building between platform 12 & 15, which would free up space on the footbridge. Revenue from retail units is all well and good, but that shouldn't take precedence over safety and comfort.

With a big enough budget, I'd rather see a large mezzanine area built above the platforms, with multiple escalators and lifts down to each island. Sure, this might make the platforms themselves a bit dingy rather like Birmingham New Street, but it would vastly improve the experience for about 90% of the time anyone spends in the station. As an added bonus there would be no shortage of space for additional retail too, and it wouldn't get in the way of people who are just trying to get to their train like the current outlets on the bridge do.

 

[johntea]

While we're moaning about Platform 17 there is a very useful door on the platform so you could exit straight out of the Southern side of the station but it is staff use and/or emergency use only (although I'm nearly certain they did open it up for passenger use temporarily during Covid times)

 

[yorksrob]

So in conclusion platform 17 is:

- Too short for capacity needs
- Lacking in cover for the local climate
- Awkward to get to, exacerbated by crowding issues on 16

Basically unfit for purpose in any way, shape or form.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I would like to see the Northern Ticket Office moved to where Boots is as according to this diagram!



From Network archive: https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/IO_64f27795-5097-4f64-9a01-53a0593e3571/

Its about time that area was reopened back up to its orignal width!

Also I would like to see it combined with the box in the middle of the Northern course and that area restored to an open space.

 

[yorksrob]

I would like to see the Northern Ticket Office moved to where Boots is as according to this diagram!

View attachment 166988

From Network archive: https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/IO_64f27795-5097-4f64-9a01-53a0593e3571/

Its about time that area was reopened back up to its orignal width!

Also I would like to see it combined with the box in the middle of the Northern course and that area restored to an open space.

It would be nice to see the full extent of the Wellington Street concourse in all its glory.

 

[Andyh82]

The corridor where the ticket windows are is probably the worst part of the ‘land side’ part of the station, with hundreds of people walking in both directions and people using the ticket office

I’d probably relocate the ticket windows to the travel centre, changing the entrance into a ramp rather than stairs

The gap between the main concourse and the ticket corridor should be made a bit wider to stop it being a blind corner

In terms of Platform 17, they probably just need to look at what the maximum length they could extend it without a major project. Even 5 cars rather than the existing 4 cars would be better than nothing

 

[thomalex]

The corridor where the ticket windows are is probably the worst part of the ‘land side’ part of the station, with hundreds of people walking in both directions and people using the ticket office

I’d probably relocate the ticket windows to the travel centre, changing the entrance into a ramp rather than stairs

The gap between the main concourse and the ticket corridor should be made a bit wider to stop it being a blind corner

In terms of Platform 17, they probably just need to look at what the maximum length they could extend it without a major project. Even 5 cars rather than the existing 4 cars would be better than nothing

Agree. This seems to be some low hanging fruit presumably held back by how they would commercialise it.

The ticket office is located there as after the 60s rebuild the southern concourse was left as a car park so had next to no through traffic. It's very different now however.

 

[Halifaxlad]

It would be nice to see the full extent of the Wellington Street concourse in all its glory.

Mainly I would move the Ticket office and Ticket machines to make it wider, its too narrow as it is and the que for the booking office only makes it worse.

Granted it would be nice to see the false ceiling removed and the concourse restored to as orignally built!

The gap between the main concourse and the ticket corridor should be made a bit wider to stop it being a blind corner

It originally used to be 3 openings although only the central one remains as a walk through! I have seen a photo of it decorated quite nicely in art deco fashion. Once I find it I will upload a copy of it.

Im not sure it would stop it being a blind corner as much thou, what you need for that is to run some seating parrallel with the Southern concourse although you can't do that with the assistance box in the middle of the Northern concourse.

 

[YorksLad12]

I doubt you'd get away with additional escalators even if they were narrower. The existing ones to the platforms are already 'up' only, with the stairs being used for those descending. The luggage on escalators problem could be solved with the 'blocker fences' (not sure what they're really called) like those fitted at the bottom of the escalators up from the gateline, but again the narrow platforms might mean that can't be done.

[...]

With a big enough budget, I'd rather see a large mezzanine area built above the platforms, with multiple escalators and lifts down to each island. Sure, this might make the platforms themselves a bit dingy rather like Birmingham New Street, but it would vastly improve the experience for about 90% of the time anyone spends in the station. As an added bonus there would be no shortage of space for additional retail too, and it wouldn't get in the way of people who are just trying to get to their train like the current outlets on the bridge do.

The one at the bottom of the up escalator on P8 was a test to see how it would work. They didn't do the rest, and yet that one remains... and there's nothing to stop you taking luggage on the down escalator...

I think a mezzanine level was part of the T-station plan - makes sense to me, if it can be fitted in with all of the OLE. All of the shops could be moved there

While we're moaning about Platform 17 there is a very useful door on the platform so you could exit straight out of the Southern side of the station but it is staff use and/or emergency use only (although I'm nearly certain they did open it up for passenger use temporarily during Covid times)

I'm sure I stepped out of that door when doing a recce before it opened. Sadly I forgot to take a photo. It can't be used because it bypasses the gate line... and most people would then use the up escalator anyway, to use the footbridge and main exit.

So in conclusion platform 17 is:

- Too short for capacity needs
- Lacking in cover for the local climate
- Awkward to get to, exacerbated by crowding issues on 16

Basically unfit for purpose in any way, shape or form.

It was at the time of Leeds First. We now have several more services per hour (and longer trains, now that the Pacers have gone).

The corridor where the ticket windows are is probably the worst part of the ‘land side’ part of the station, with hundreds of people walking in both directions and people using the ticket office

I’d probably relocate the ticket windows to the travel centre, changing the entrance into a ramp rather than stairs

The gap between the main concourse and the ticket corridor should be made a bit wider to stop it being a blind corner

In terms of Platform 17, they probably just need to look at what the maximum length they could extend it without a major project. Even 5 cars rather than the existing 4 cars would be better than nothing

There was a plan which would have seen a second walking route (possibly raised, I'm going from memory) through Millie's Cookies/Boots. It was curved, but I can't remember why! I do remember though, thinking at the time that it would make more sense to swap Boots and the Ticket Office around. Ticketless passengers coming off the platforms could pay and go through an extended gate line (if they were paying for a single they wouldn't even need a ticket, the nice person manning the booth could take their money and just open the gate). On the modern railway though, things are mixed up so that you pass retail offerings while heading for your train; zoning areas into retail and 'trains' means you get less cross-traffic.

Nothing against Millie's Cookies, and I'm sure they sell more than the pod on the North Concourse, but that corner is a nightmare in the rush hour... coming in in the morning I always seem to get funnelled to the right-hand side if I can't get across the stream of exiting passengers. That means you can't see who is coming round the corner. The way to do it is to get over to the Sainsbury's side and stay left as far as possible (walk in front of the Ticket Office windows if you have to!) so that you get a chance to swing round everyone near the pod.

 

[Grumpy]

The best value for money thing they could do is re-open the old side entrance directly onto New Station St from the approximate point where it used to be years ago i.e. just near the bottom of the eastern footbridge stairs.
Could perhaps try it out, perhaps peak hours only initially, with a few ticket collection staff.
Would be a time-saving boon for passengers getting on/off carriages at the eastern end of the station who need to walk into the city via New Station St.
Would ease pressures on the main footbridge/escalators/concourse (although admittedly increasing use of Eastern footbridge).
Probably have considerably more usage than the (£50m?)south entrance at negligible cost.

 

[yorksrob]

It was at the time of Leeds First. We now have several more services per hour (and longer trains, now that the Pacers have gone).

Indeed - almost a quarter of a century ago now !

Incidentally, the situation is even worse today with the platform 16 escalator out of use !

The best value for money thing they could do is re-open the old side entrance directly onto New Station St from the approximate point where it used to be years ago i.e. just near the bottom of the eastern footbridge stairs.
Could perhaps try it out, perhaps peak hours only initially, with a few ticket collection staff.
Would be a time-saving boon for passengers getting on/off carriages at the eastern end of the station who need to walk into the city via New Station St.
Would ease pressures on the main footbridge/escalators/concourse (although admittedly increasing use of Eastern footbridge).
Probably have considerably more usage than the (£50m?)south entrance at negligible cost.

Yes, I remember that being handy at times.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

I remember during disruption due to a man in the signal gantry we were held up for a while on the Aire and Wharfe as they'd removed power from the overheads. They then changed it so that some were energised just not where the fellow was. It meant they let the trains in to disgorge in turn on platform 1C and we were all ushered straight out a side entrance by all the bike parking.

You could open up that as an exit only gate to ease the morning crush around the main barriers for any of the many people who commute Aire/Wharfe and work to the west of the station.

 

[JD2168]

An improvement I would like is an extension to Platform 17 which would enable 3 car trains to be used on Nottingham/Lincoln services which are desperately needed as these can be very crowded at times.

 

[xotGD]

You could open up that as an exit only gate to ease the morning crush around the main barriers for any of the many people who commute Aire/Wharfe and work to the west of the station.

As an Airedale commuter who works west of the station, I wholeheartedly agree!

 

[Killingworth]

Nostalgia floods over me, to the days I first visited Leeds station, about 1965. Steam much in evidence and activity on platforms in the part that had been Wellington Street station; a map from 1969 is here: https://maps.nls.uk/view/210664411

Later I recall walking beneath the arches off Neville Street to park on Canal Wharf. It's changed a bit as passenger numbers fell and rail facilities were cut back, only to have grown into a problem today.

 

[Meerkat]

The chances of a new HS station being built are now so small (and so far into the future anyway) that surely big money needs to be spent on the current station.
Would that money be better spent on the station, or would quadrupling to Neville Hill enable better use of the current platforms?
It’s a shame that options were so drastically reduced by allowing big new buildings so close on the southern side - even just an overhanging extension to P17 would be pretty close to that cylinder building

 

[xotGD]

that cylinder building

Candle House - I used to live there!

 

[yorksrob]

Platform 17 aside, Leeds station isn't bad by any means.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Platform 17 aside, Leeds station isn't bad by any means.

Generally I'd agree, although it could definitely do with a clean and (if we're going a bit further) some more light through that awful amazon-warehouse-esque roof.

 

[YorksLad12]

Platform 17 aside, Leeds station isn't bad by any means.

Platform 3? Shorter than the surrounding platforms, and whenever I use it my train is the front of the pair

But at least it's not Euston...

 

[Ken H]

I miss the entrance in New Station Street. It was a useful short cut from Boar Ln to the east end of the station.
And a way through from near platform 0 to the LMS north concourse. Making everyone go through the main barrier line just causes congestion.

 

[yorksrob]

Platform 3? Shorter than the surrounding platforms, and whenever I use it my train is the front of the pair

But at least it's not Euston...

Yes, particularly when you have to leg it across town to get the last bus of the night !