Leeds to London regular commute - cheapest way

[BarryTrainMan]

I need to travel to London from Leeds 3x per week for work. I’ll make the return journey in a day, leaving on the 7am from Leeds and returning on a train around 6pm from kings cross. I’ll be on LNER.

An annual season ticket is £14.4k (ouch), so taking into account annual leave etc, each return journey will cost approx £105 over the year.

I’d be happy to buy advanced tickets but there never seem to be any available for the 7am Leeds-London train. Plus each advanced return journey would have to be less than £100 or I may as well stick to the season ticket.

Am I missing something or is the annual season ticket my best bet here?

Some posters have mentioned using season tickets for other networks on LNER trains whilst remaining within the ticketing rules. Not sure if this is an option for me?

 

[Deerfold]

There's a good reason you'll struggle to get advances for that train. It is almost always full and standing - it's the fastest train of the day by some way, as well as arriving in London just before 0900.

It's surprising how many annual season tickets you'll see people on that train have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a hellish journey. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer to weekly commute staying in a hotel?

 

[Bantamzen]

The 07:00 from Leeds is a very popular train not only because of the time, but because it originates from Bradford and picks up a lot of London passengers there and at Shipley. Saying that I caught it from Shipley this very morning, and there were quite few seats that did not have a reservation so it may be possible to get the occasional advance. However some members with more experience in getting the best deal might be able to get you something more concrete and reliable.

 

[BarryTrainMan]

Thanks all. Hotel isn’t an option at the moment. Family reasons mean the 3x week commute is my best bet for now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks all. Hotel isn’t an option at the moment. Family reasons mean the 3x week commute is my best bet for now.

Fair enough, though I fear you won't be seeing much of your family with a commute like that either way, and you'll be tired all the time too. One to consider.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I need to travel to London from Leeds 3x per week for work. I’ll make the return journey in a day, leaving on the 7am from Leeds and returning on a train around 6pm from kings cross. I’ll be on LNER.

An annual season ticket is £14.4k (ouch), so taking into account annual leave etc, each return journey will cost approx £105 over the year.

I’d be happy to buy advanced tickets but there never seem to be any available for the 7am Leeds-London train. Plus each advanced return journey would have to be less than £100 or I may as well stick to the season ticket.

Am I missing something or is the annual season ticket my best bet here?

Some posters have mentioned using season tickets for other networks on LNER trains whilst remaining within the ticketing rules. Not sure if this is an option for me?

I am sure there will be some alternatives out there with respect to getting a ticket that covers you to an intermediate station (whether or not it's a station that the train calls at), and then getting another ticket from said intermediate station to London (whether a season ticket or otherwise). But unfortunately I'm not very familiar with that particular stretch of track so I can't say what tickets that might best work with.

The obvious solution, which would be to get a ticket that's valid via London from a station outside the so-called "Network Area" to Leeds, doesn't work here. I say it's the obvious solution because tickets like that are only restricted on the leg between the origin (say, Bristol) to London, and have no restrictions at all between London and the destination (Leeds), so they are equivalent to an Anytime ticket from London to Leeds. But unfortunately there are no such tickets that I can immediately think of that undercut the approx £105 cost of a return journey on an annual season ticket.

If you had a monthly or other less-than-annual season ticket such a combination might well be cheaper, but an annual season ticket is really very good value for money compared to what an average walk-up punter would have to pay, at £263.00 return for an Anytime ticket!

Even the usual method of saving money on this stretch of track, which might involve taking a Grand Central or Hull Trains service (as these are both cheaper) wouldn't really work, as neither have feasible options to get into London by 09:00 (Hull Trains' first service into London arrives at 09:15, and you'd have to change at Doncaster to join it, but Hull Trains have been quite unreliable recently so if arriving on time is important, I would not rely on them).

I suspect there is probably nothing cheaper than an annual season ticket that will have the same flexibility, unfortunately.

EDIT: Having had another look around, there are a few season tickets out there which are cheaper than the one from Leeds to London but which have the same validity technically speaking. However, it's very much a loophole and so you could well face hassle, potential demands for a new Anytime Single, and even threats of prosecution if you used it day in, day out to commute to London. I wouldn't say it's worth it unless you are willing to endure all of those for the sake of a relatively modest saving.

 

[BarryTrainMan]

Fair enough, though I fear you won't be seeing much of your family with a commute like that either way, and you'll be tired all the time too. One to consider.

Yes, I probably agree but none of our current options are ideal. This is probably the least bad!

 

[BarryTrainMan]

I am sure there will be some alternatives out there with respect to getting a ticket that covers you to an intermediate station (whether or not it's a station that the train calls at), and then getting another ticket from said intermediate station to London (whether a season ticket or otherwise). But unfortunately I'm not very familiar with that particular stretch of track so I can't say what tickets that might best work with.

The obvious solution, which would be to get a ticket that's valid via London from a station outside the so-called "Network Area" to Leeds, doesn't work here. I say it's the obvious solution because tickets like that are only restricted on the leg between the origin (say, Bristol) to London, and have no restrictions at all between London and the destination (Leeds), so they are equivalent to an Anytime ticket from London to Leeds. But unfortunately there are no such tickets that I can immediately think of that undercut the approx £105 cost of a return journey on an annual season ticket.

If you had a monthly or other less-than-annual season ticket such a combination might well be cheaper, but an annual season ticket is really very good value for money compared to what an average walk-up punter would have to pay, at £263.00 return for an Anytime ticket!

Even the usual method of saving money on this stretch of track, which might involve taking a Grand Central or Hull Trains service (as these are both cheaper) wouldn't really work, as neither have feasible options to get into London by 09:00 (Hull Trains' first service into London arrives at 09:15, and you'd have to change at Doncaster to join it, but Hull Trains have been quite unreliable recently so if arriving on time is important, I would not rely on them).

I suspect there is probably nothing cheaper than an annual season ticket that will have the same flexibility, unfortunately.

EDIT: Having had another look around, there are a few season tickets out there which are cheaper than the one from Leeds to London but which have the same validity technically speaking. However, it's very much a loophole and so you could well face hassle, potential demands for a new Anytime Single, and even threats of prosecution if you used it day in, day out to commute to London. I wouldn't say it's worth it unless you are willing to endure all of those for the sake of a relatively modest saving.

Interesting. Are you able to point me in the direction of the alternative season tickets? Any clues on where I could look myself?

Agree that it might not be worth it if I risk prosecution! Don’t need to add more stress to the commute!

 

[westv]

Thanks all. Hotel isn’t an option at the moment. Family reasons mean the 3x week commute is my best bet for now.

If you ever change your mind, I'd recommend https://www.spareroom.co.uk/ for a London base.

 

[BarryTrainMan]

If you ever change your mind, I'd recommend https://www.spareroom.co.uk/ for a London base.

Still my least best option... but if I did this, I would still need a ticket for the 07:00 Monday morning train from Leeds. And I’ve yet to find an available advanced ticket on the LNER site. I guess this means I’d have to purchase the walk-up fare for £131 on a Monday morning? Once I’ve added a return ticket, plus two night accommodation this may work out more expensive.

 

[30907]

TBH the season, giving peak travel at less than the cost of the super Offpeak fare, is exceedingly good value. The evening trains from Kings Cross empty out steadily en route, so you should have space to relax or work!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still my least best option... but if I did this, I would still need a ticket for the 07:00 Monday morning train from Leeds. And I’ve yet to find an available advanced ticket on the LNER site. I guess this means I’d have to purchase the walk-up fare for £131 on a Monday morning? Once I’ve added a return ticket, plus two night accommodation this may work out more expensive.

I was more thinking three nights, then presumably you have more choice of return trains, e.g. you could eat before returning a little later if that saves money. Put the kids to bed then head to London, say. You could be off peak both ways then.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Interesting. Are you able to point me in the direction of the alternative season tickets? Any clues on where I could look myself?

Agree that it might not be worth it if I risk prosecution! Don’t need to add more stress to the commute!

To find them manually it would take a long time, and you'd have to learn how to calculate what are known as "permitted routes" to see which ones had validity that actually represented an anomaly. The forum's fares guide has an introduction to this.

If you feel up to learning that, then I'm sure the forum is more than happy to help teach you the methods of finding these kinds of tickets. But, as it's the field of anomalies, and the potential outcome if you get it wrong by accident can be very bad (i.e. prosecution and potential conviction), it's crucial that you can understand the concepts before you go off buying an annual season ticket on an anomalous route, and potentially have no way of explaining what you're doing when you have the ticket checked.

The forum runs Fares Workshops that explain all this kind of thing, and more, at frequent intervals throughout the country. If you'd be interested in attending one of these, please say and then we can look to see what arrangements can be made so you can attend one soon.

In the mean time, I would proceed with buying whatever is judged as the best value option for now (whether it's a season ticket or buying lots of individual tickets). It doesn't really matter if you only later find out about a better (cheaper) option, regardless if which option you go for:

If you're buying individual tickets, you can always just start buying tickets along the new (cheaper) route. Obviously, there's not mant situations where buying a year's worth (say) of individual tickets in advance is worthwhile, as whilst you can get a refund, there is a £10 admin fee per ticket with most retailers; some retailers offer a £10 admin fee per purchase, which could be better (if you have bought several tickets in one purchase).

And in case you've bought a season ticket but find a cheaper route that also covers you, you have the option to change the route covered by your season ticket at any time until a week before it expires, without an admin fee, by going to a ticket office and either paying, or (hopefully!) being refunded, the pro-rata difference between the routes of the old and new season ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

Whilst it's not impossible there may be some unusual tickets, the 0700's habit of not stopping between Wakefield and London gives fewer opportunities.

Another option if you were to decide to stay in London at all is Youth Hostels - I commuted to London from Yorkshire for 8 years, staying at them.

 

[syorksdeano]

I know it's not Kings Cross but how about the option from Leeds to Sheffield to London?

 

[Deerfold]

I know it's not Kings Cross but how about the option from Leeds to Sheffield to London?

Although to arrive for 0900, the OP would have to set off 1h41 earlier.

 

[kieron]

[

I need to travel to London from Leeds 3x per week for work. I’ll make the return journey in a day, leaving on the 7am from Leeds and returning on a train around 6pm from kings cross. I’ll be on LNER.

A couple of questions.
Are you travelling to somewhere near to Kings Cross, Old Street or Moorgate? A season ticket would allow travel to any of those. If not, do you intend to use public transport to get to your destination?

Are you entitled to a railcard (I think 16-25, 26-30, 60+ and Disabled are the relevant ones)?

Whilst it's not impossible there may be some unusual tickets, the 0700's habit of not stopping between Wakefield and London gives fewer opportunities.

The solution will probably involve a season ticket somewhere, which would mean it wasn't that restrictive. Section 14.2 of the Conditions of Travel says:

If you are using a Season Ticket ... and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

In other words, a split is valid at any station you know your train will pass through. This could affect your options if a train is diverted, but TOCs try to avoid that with busy trains like these ones.

 

[big all]

just a though
say an hour earlier start and hour earlier finnish each day or 3 hrs on the 3rd day or a day off every 3 or 4 weeks

 

[Deerfold]

just a though
say an hour earlier start and hour earlier finnish each day or 3 hrs on the 3rd day or a day off every 3 or 4 weeks

That'll certainly improve availability of advances. However, getting into Kings Cross for 0800 means leaving Leeds at 0530.

 

[30907]

The only way to save significantly on advances is to work something like 1100-1900, as the early trains are typically priced at £54 even 12 weeks ahead.

 

[cuccir]

The only way to save significantly on advances is to work something like 1100-1900, as the early trains are typically priced at £54 even 12 weeks ahead.

Agreed, shifting an hour or so either way will bring you advances but not with much of a saving over the season ticket. Although the absolute amount is very high indeed, the season here is pretty good value for a regular traveller.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Agreed, shifting an hour or so either way will bring you advances but not with much of a saving over the season ticket. Although the absolute amount is very high indeed, the season here is pretty good value for a regular traveller.

Just think of all those Nectar points from the LNER website.

 

[Deerfold]

Just think of all those Nectar points from the LNER website.

And try not to think what EC's rewards scheme would have been worth.

 

[Wallsendmag]

That’s a franchise and an OLR ago

 

[Deerfold]

That’s a franchise and an OLR ago

Still missed - nectar points barely worth collecting.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Still missed - nectar points barely worth collecting.

Well, if you shop at Sainsbury's they represent effectively 1% cashback (rounded down to the nearest full pound or transaction price). But yeah, otherwise they are not much use. Certainly less generous than the old EC rewards scheme.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

OP may be thinking of a York to KGX season, which is the same price as to Leeds. Thus allowing as much additional travel between LDS and YRK for free as one wants, as well as the option of pulling into the NRM on one's way home (!).

 

[Deerfold]

OP may be thinking of a York to KGX season, which is the same price as to Leeds. Thus allowing as much additional travel between LDS and YRK for free as one wants, as well as the option of pulling into the NRM on one's way home (!).

That works both ways - a Leeds to London season is valid via York. A few years ago that validity did disappear from the routeing guide, but only briefly.

 

[Haywain]

That works both ways - a Leeds to London season is valid via York. A few years ago that validity did disappear from the routeing guide, but only briefly.

Briefly, because it wasn't planned or wanted.